Talk:Moors

Moor from Mauri

I frankly don't understand why this article is separated from the one for Mauri, since the word Moor is originally from Mauri, which was used by Romans, and by the native Mauri (inhabitants of the Kingdom of Mauretania and the Roman provinces that ensued from them) to designate themselves, indicating as Gabriel Camps suggests that it may be originally a Berber word that went into Greek then Latin. The claim of the first paragraph of the article that it was an "exonym" in that sense, is not accurate, and much less is the claim that it was an equivalent of Muslim. The term was and remained much more strongly associated with Northwest Africa and its proxy regions (e.g. Andalusia) than any other place, and a cursory search in the literature is sufficient indication, that it was mainly a geographical term that was sometimes abused and generalized, but most often retained its original significance (check the number of hits for "Moorish Morocco" vs "Moorish Egypt" or any other region, on Google Books or Google Scholar for instance). --Ideophagous (talk) 10:23, 03 April 2021 (UTC+2)

There is an entire section discussing White and Black Moors

So if there is a section on White and Sub-Saharan African Moors why is the lede only discussing Arab, and Berber Moors? When everyone knows so-called Black people have also always been identified as moors in literature. Inayity (talk) 11:29, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

The section on "white Moors" and "Black Moors" is written rather confusingly and doesn't make enough use of secondary sources (it quotes a lot of primary sources without much context). Following this comment, I've tried to add to and re-organize it to compensate a little for that, though not much ([1]). Among other issues: the sources cited on "white Moors" and "black Moors" in Mauritania (the only modern usage of this) merely describe the current situation and not the origins/history of that terminology in this specific local context (which, in the absence of sources clarifying this, may or may not be directly related to historical European usage), so this point probably belongs more to the "Modern meanings" section as is.

This edit was a little undue, given that the most common usage readers would come across is clearly its generic designation for Muslims in the medieval western, of which sub-Saharan Africans were not the main element, but I've retained it with adjustment and a couple of additions to the lead. R Prazeres (talk) 16:53, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

Moor is more commonly associated with "black people" and I have been editing occasionally on this article for over a decade and have seen it constantly put in and pulled out. A Google search of Moor clearly shows what most people associate with Moor. Most common usage is with Afrocentrics and Black culture. Just a casual look at YouTube again shows a battle of the Black Moor vs the White Moor. Like Race in Ancient Egypt, it is a divisive topic split along racial lines. See also previous discussions, which are now archived. --Inayity (talk) 11:05, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

Moor is more commonly associated with "black people" it's not. In terms of skin colour (which is irrelevant to the history of the Moors), the term Moor was associated with "darker than white" people, i.e., North Africans. The so-called "dark Moor" started to appear in European racialized discourse (mostly in theatres, where faces were blackened for effect) in the 17th century (after the Moors were expelled from the Iberian Peninsula) to construct and perpetuate the false narrative of European superiority over the "darker" others. M.Bitton (talk) 14:20, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

I second M.Bitton's comment. The depiction of Moors as black in European art and literature has more to do with racial and cultural assumptions by Europeans, as well as an attempt to make them look as distinct from Europeans as possible. The term itself does not seem to be related to skin color, and originally derived from Mauri, meaning Berber inhabitant of Mauretania, though according to Pliny the Elder it may have further back referred to a specific tribe or clan in Mauretania (see The Natural History of Pliny). Ideophagous (talk) 16:58, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

I think something must have slipped the two people above. black people please read this article has nothing to do with Black skin. So please explain to me how black people or Black Africans has anything to do with actual skin color? Like I said this is not a new debate. And the two of you agreeing to the same mythology is amazing. Where in God's creation does being a Black person = black skin? It is amazing how in 2025 people still think Black people (hence why I refuse to use color for any people, it is very colonial and backward) = actual skin color. Right now, per Google, when I say Moor what does it mean? What comes up? That is who is reading this article and bringing their perception with them. --Inayity (talk) 19:24, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Please explain what "Black" stands for (if not the colour). M.Bitton (talk) 19:37, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, You do not get to do that when black people is a wikipedia entry. If not a color? Its only a color now?--Inayity (talk) 19:39, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

@Inayity This sounds like an American viewpoint trying to foist itself as a universal concept. Outside an American context, I have never heard of or seen anyone except people with black skin or at least some black ancestry (e.g. if they have a non-black parent, or have some skin condition that makes them look not black) refer to themselves as "black". North Africans never refer to themselves as "black", despite being Africans. I don't know about white Africans of European ancestry in places like South Africa, but I've never heard or read that they referred to themselves as "black" either. This whole division of people into "white" vs "black" is an American, and somewhat more generally Western thing. In other cultural contexts, it may at best only hold true to some extent if at all, and other racial divisions and nomenclatures apply, which relate to the specific history of those regions. Furthermore, applying the term "black" with a modern (American) connotation on Moors is rather anachronistic, since the term "Moors" itself is no longer used to refer to any modern populations (except Afrocentrists and some crazy Moroccan nationalists), and its meaning until the early modern period clearly referred to populations within North Africa and Andalusia, and sometimes more broadly to Muslims, regardless of skin color. Ideophagous (talk) 21:17, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

"since the term "Moors" itself is no longer used to refer to any modern populations" => except the aforementioned + the ones mentioned in the article, but those just emphasize the point that it's not about skin color or being "black". Ideophagous (talk) 21:20, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Where is the photo gallery of depictions of Moors?

Where is the photo gallery of so-called Moorish depictions throughout history? That got deleted also. Depictions of Othello, yet I am told "most people" [[2]] Inayity (talk) 19:32, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Othello?? Did you read this comment? M.Bitton (talk) 19:38, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

I see nothing there that speaks to what I just wrote.--Inayity (talk) 19:40, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Compare this article to this one [3] what happened? All the work people now look at the state it is in. --Inayity (talk) 19:45, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

This policy was applied: MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES. See Talk:Moors/Archive_8#Depiction_of_Moors. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 20:41, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2025

Change “In modern-day Mauritania, the terms "Black moors" and "white Moors" are used to refer to the Beidane and Haratin peoples, respectively.” to “In modern-day Mauritania, the terms "Black moors" and "white Moors" are used to refer to the Haratin and Beidane peoples, respectively.” (Terms switched) and the original source - it has been misreported 94.156.228.88 (talk) 20:19, 20 September 2025 (UTC)

References

Done. Indeed, this must have been an accident, well spotted. R Prazeres (talk) 20:38, 20 September 2025 (UTC)

Already done Marking as done per R Prazeres Nubzor [T][C] 20:55, 20 September 2025 (UTC)

Moor Was An Equinym For Negro

According to the great Dr. Johnson, including a quote from William Shakespeare:

2. [Maurus, Latin.] A negro; a black-a-moor. I shall answer that better than you can the getting up of the negro’s belly; the moor is with child by you. Shakesp.

Source: Samuel Johnson's Dictionary.

And yet the Wikipedia/Brittanica definition is: "The term Moor is an exonym used in European languages to designate primarily the Muslim populations of North Africa (the Maghreb) and the Iberian Peninsula (particularly al-Andalus) during the Middle Ages."

Nothing about them being Negroes. I would say this de-africanizes history.

~2026-25094-28 (talk) 13:16, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

More descriptions of Moors and Blacks being used as synonyms.

Olfert Dapper, Naukeurige Beschrijvinge der Afrikaensche Gewesten (Amsterdam: Jacob van Meurs, 1676), p. 407

This is a 17th Century description of West Africa by Jacob van Meurs. The title is literally: "’t Landt der Swarten oft Mooren,", which means The Land Of The Blacks Or Moors. ~2026-25094-28 (talk) 03:18, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

I hope the editor's of this page dont let the Afrocentric crazys get their way

Please do your due diligence to prevent any of this Crossfire of black and white nonsense that happens on the Egyptians Pages as well thank youI i ~2026-28729-75 (talk) 04:54, 12 May 2026 (UTC)

I think such ad hominem attacks are inappropriate for this platform. We need facts and quotes, not slurs and gatekeeping. ~2026-25094-28 (talk) 20:56, 12 May 2026 (UTC)