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See also: User:RevelationDirect/Sandbox, User:RevelationDirect/sandbox/CFDawards, and User:RevelationDirect/sandbox/CFDgeneral

Process for speedily deleting recreated categories

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In the past, when I wanted to speedy delete categories that had previously been deleted at CFD, I would tag them as WP:G4. This didn't work perfectly though because the good editors who work Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as pages previously deleted via deletion discussion don't usually handle cats so I'd come here eventually to have them deleted but it did give me a process. Awhile back, @Liz: raised concerns that tagging with G4 could lead to WP:REDNOT if these were deleted there without first emptying them.

What's the right process for speedily deleting the categories below that were recreated against consensus after a CFD deletion? -

Wikitools

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{{talkpage

Wikipedia article traffic statistics

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WM CLoud

Ideas

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Categories to Create

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Potential Future Categories if they grow big enough to avoid WP:NARROWCAT

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Categories to Nominate

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Shipping, Etc.

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Draft Conversations

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Citing a Non-Blog Site hosted by WordPress

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WordPress blogs are justifiably not a a reliable source per WP:RSPWORDPRESS. Per the intro to the WordPress article the company "... has evolved to support publishing other web content, including more traditional websites ..."

The National Digital Newspaper Program was established by the Library of Congress and National Endowment for Humanities who picked UNLV as their partner in Nevada. UNLV hosted the "Nevada Digital Newspaper Project" at https://nvdnp.wordpress.com/. The UNLV listed the project staff and a formal advisory board with editorial control. (There is a separate blog section but the overall site is not editable.)

[[Lincoln County Record|This article cites [1] on the history of this newspaper as an exception to WP:GUNREL. If there are any concerns, let me know! -

link] to Chronicling America [2]]

Wikipedia categories named after

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Background/Comment The background from Bearcat and Gnangarra is helpful. Interpreting WP:EPON's encouragement to not go overboard with parent categories to mean that there can be no parent categories for eponymous cats is a stretch for me. From there I struggle with how adding the phrase "Wikipedia categories named after" serves as an amulet to make supposedly disallowed categories permissible. The larger problem is that so many eponymous categories were removed from their other parent categories when these ones were created which creates a WP:WALL. It also inadvertently creates a fait accompli where we can't delete this entire tree without orphaning categories. Earlier conversations have bogged down covering this history and I'm not sure if we move past that by revising WP:EPON or breaking this down into smaller noms.

  • Procedural Comment Thanks for the ping. Since this is a talk page of a page that may be speedy deleted, another location might be more stable for this conversation, maybe WP:DRV if this is a formal review or Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization if it is preliminary discussion. - RevelationDirect (talk) 23:04, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
  • Question (as original nominator): The concern I raised originally is that, according to the Developmental coordination disorder article, around 5% of people have dyspraxia. Now I don't doubt that there are extreme cases that are WP:DEFINING. Do you think this trait is generally defining for 1/20th of people? - RevelationDirect (talk) 23:33, 11 February 2025 (UTC)

Request for comment on updating the OCVENUE guideline

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{{rfc|policy|prop Should the "SmallCat" section contain a photograph of the ship? <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange"

Editing guidelines should reflect community consensus.

1 and 2 Namiba|Qwerfjkl|Toohool|William Allen Simpson|Thryduulf|Rlendog|Fuzzy510|Epicgenius

Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization/Archive 16#RFC on WP:OCVENUE


Venues by event

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{{shortcut|WP:OCVENUE

Avoid categorizing locations by the events or event types that have been held there, such as arenas that have hosted specific sports events or concerts, convention centers that have hosted specific conventions or meetings, or cities featured in specific television shows that film at multiple locations.

Likewise, avoid categorizing events by their hosting locations. Many notable locations (e.g. Madison Square Garden) have hosted so many sports events and conventions over time that categories listing all such events would not be readable.

However, categories that indicate how a specific facility is regularly used in a specific and notable way for some or all of the year (such as Category:National Basketball Association venues) may sometimes be appropriate.

Baseball players by minor league team

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Category:Leesburg, Florida Category:Sports in Visalia, California subcats vs. the redirects to Visalia Rawhide. WP:PERFCAT, usually players notable for playing later in the major league lists their minor league teams. Category:Victoria Capitals players folded after two months but, more commonly, players are there for a year. Category:Tarboro, North Carolina. Category:Sunbury, Pennsylvania. Category:St. Joseph, Missouri all are St. Joseph Saints. Category:Rio Grande Valley White Wings players and Category:Rio Grande Valley WhiteWings players for Rio Grande Valley WhiteWings. Category:Richmond Blue Birds players and Category:Richmond Blue Birds players for Richmond Bluebirds. Norfolk Braves cats Category:Lock Haven Maroons players for the Lock Haven Maroons in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania but we also have Category:Lockhaven Maroons players

Ship Names

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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 February 2#Category:United States Navy Alabama-related ships

Individually listed non-contributing properties to historic districts on the National Register?

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Generally, when a building is non-contributing to a historic district, we wouldn't care about it for this wikiproject. But I just created the article for the Danish Brotherhood in America Headquarters, which was individually listed in 2016 when it turned 50 years old. The nomination form mentioned that it was within the Gold Coast Historic District (Omaha, Nebraska) but was listed as a non-contributing property because, at the time, it was only 31 years old. I expected to see that text followed with something like "and we're requesting it be added at this time" but it didn't.

The historic district nomination form does list 3717 Harney as non-contributing but doesn't say why. I looked for updates on the Gold Coast Historic District that reclassified the property, but didn't see any. (This wouldn't be a an increase per se, since the building sits squarely within the original boundary.)

Clearly, this is an obscure question, but is this really an individually listed non-contributing property to a historic district?

PRUS

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Thank you for bringing WP:PRUS to my attention. I went back through the NRHP articles I updated in Puerto Rico and fixed quite a few other articles. (In the process I noticed that ping|Mercy11 had corrected a couple too.) The vast majority of United States categories will never have 5+ articles to justify a Category:Insular areas of the United States subcategory though, so I mostly moved them to Caribbean/North American/Global categories.

I wasn't aware of that local consensus and my going against it was totally inadvertent. -

When you notice this type of mistake in the future, it would be super helpful if you could move the article to the right category.. After all, the Henry Klumb House belongs somewhere under the Category:Burned buildings and structures tree. If you turn on WP:HOTCAT, finding alternative categories is a lot quicker.

I'm worried that simply deleting categories will cause readers to have trouble finding Puerto Rican articles.

Thank you for identifying award recipients

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Just saw that you had several notices for award categories and I wanted to thank you for grouping the award recipients together. Since the WP:OCAWARD editing guideline was tightened, I've been working to move this information into the article space. Before nominating award categories, I always copy the contents into a list within the main article so no work is lost.

If my CFD notices ever are cluttering your talk page, just let me know and I'll start omitting them. - \

  • AusTerrapin
Thank you for reaching out and assuming good faith, even though I've clearly frustrated you. I appreciate that. Here is an overly long reply:
  • Categories, Lists, & Templates: Different navigational tools in Wikipedia have different inclusion criteria: for articles it's notability (WP:N/WP:LISTN), for categories it's definingness (WP:DEFINING/WP:OCAWARD), while Templates are for narrow, closely related topics (WP:NAVBOX). WP:CLN forbids deleting one navigational tool because others exist but it doesn't go the other way: just because, say, a category exists doesn't mean you can create a list or template in violation of the relevant guidelines. I need to work on improving the wording of my nominations because the causality I mean to convey is that "this category is not allowed, I want to keep the information, and this same info is allowed in a list." (I do not mean "I created the list therefore the category is no longer allowed [sic]".)
  • All or Nothing: I don't accept that we either keep all award categories or get rid of them all. Nobel Prizes, BAFTAs, Olympic medals, Grammies, and the Order of Australia (including Jesse Martin) are all clearly defining. I do think a majority of award cats are non-definging, especially when I look at the 35 at the bottom of the Emperor Akihito article. I see prominent awards as defining when they magnify fame and non-defining when they just reflect pre-existing fame. (Or, in the case of less prominent awards, the catch-22 I described.)
  • Technical Changes: I really like your idea about nested categories. I'm picturing "Awards+" showing at the bottom of the article and, if you click the plus sign, it expands and you see all the awards. Unfortunately, the Foundation's actual technical change has been that most readers never see the categories or navboxes at all because they use the mobile version which I disagree with emphatically. (This lengthy off Wikipedia article comparing formats mentions the loss of Navboxes but not the loss of categories.) Whether my deletion of categories is warranted or not, the only places mobile readers can navigate now is through stand-alone lists, collapsible lists, See also sections and other links within articles.
I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to contribute the CFD discussion about Young Victorians; that's crumby. We may have to respectfully disagree on the cats but, given that readers increasingly won't see them anyway as they switch to mobile, I'm hoping you share my enthusiasm for having award recipients listed in the article space. -

History UPE

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Information icon Please remember to assume good faith when dealing with other editors. Specifically, I had concerns about interactions with CartleR255 with these edits 1, 2, 3 & 4 and another editor with this edit A. It can be very frustrating to deal with perceived undisclosed paid editing but it's important to follow the WP:PAID reporting process. Thank you.

Removing police brutality from Spokane Police Department article

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Thank you for starting the article on the Spokane Police Department last year. I'm surprised it took so long for someone to create the article and also surprised the article hasn't brought in more editors to flush out the contents since it's the largest city in Eastern Washington.

The current article is a short stub article with 4 sentences (with 3 citations) and an infobox. I recently tried to improve the article by adding 2 sentences (with 3 citations) about the Death of Otto Zehm, a much longer article about an unarmed disabled man killed by on on duty SPD officer where other officers in the department then tried unsuccessfully to cover up the homicide by altering the security footage. You removed the topic entirely from the article with the edit summary "WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT While among the most famous incidents with SPD, it would maybe warrant casual mention in a large article but hardly should be 1/2 the article". By that standard, I'm trying to figure out how a casual editor can help improve short stub articles without completely rewriting them.

If I instead added two sentences (with 3 citations) about what type of police vehicles are used, or the K9 Unit, or the architecture of the the police headquarters, would you have also removed those topics for being half the article? -

Reply

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*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. -
  • WP:NOTDUP vs. Template:Cfl I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. I have nominated a large number of award categories to CFD based on WP:OCAWARD and the nominator and I have respectfully disagreed on a small number of them. With many of my award cat nominations, the correct claim is made that lists, categories, and templates can be complimentary per WP:NOTDUP. There's also been a repeated misunderstanding that the reason I am nominating an award category is because there is also a list.
That has never happened.
It's confusing cause and effect. When you nominate a category in CFD that fails WP:DEFINING you have some different options for a remedy: you can propose not only deletion and merging but also "listifying" the contents using Template:Cfl. Rather than a list being an input into why a category is non-defining, a list can be a potential output for handling the contents of a non-defining category.
Whether or not we agree on this proposal or specific CFD nominations, I do hope my recognition of the roles of categories, lists and templates is clearer. -
What I do see as a major problem is the category clutter caused by non-defining awards categories. Take a look at the train wrecks at the bottom of the Dwight D. Eisenhower, Kate Winslet and Prince Leopold of Bavaria articles. -

reply 2

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  • Different Interpretations of "Exceptions" RexxS, you've done a great job getting to the heart of our differing viewpoints around what we're making an exception to:
The proposal ... seeks to clarify the circumstances where an award category should exist when receiving the award is not a defining characteristic of the article subject.
You read WP:OCAWARD to mean there are "exceptions" where a non-defining category should be retained. I read WP:OCAWARD to mean there are "exceptions" where a list should not be created, but non-notable categories should always be deleted. (I don't know if this brings us closer to consensus but it definitely brings clarity.) -

Reply 3

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We both see the same thing when we look at these award categories where many (most) are non-defining. A handful of retired editors have created thousands of award categories in rapid fire succession (see here, here and here) along with a rotation of new-ish editors who misunderstand WP:NOTDUP to mean that list articles automatically are eligible for a corresponding category.

It takes more time to nominate these categories for deletion than it does to create them from a pre-existing list which has left a large backlog of non-defining award categories awaiting CFD nomination. Within categories for discussion, delete/listify is a pretty consistent outcome. Even where there's controversy, with government medals, the disagreement is over defining-ness. I can't recall anyone ever arguing that a non-defining category should be retained.

The real problem here at the article level though. Take a look at the train wrecks at the bottom of the Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, Kate Winslet and Prince Leopold articles. That level of non-defining category clutter is worth the ongoing effort to remove and WP:OCAWARD should not be rewritten to make that harder. -

|}

Requested Moves

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McDowell High School

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{{subst:requested move|McDowell High School (Pennsylvania)|Per WP:PRECISE and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.
The phrase "McDowell High School" would have different meanings in different places:

This one is a bit bigger and a bit older, but I don't think it reaches WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for a global encyclopedia. The current naming format is likely because one article was created 3 months before the other in 2007. If this passes, the current name could then be used as a disambiguation page which would now have a third entry. Totally open to alternative parenthetical disambiguation but "(Millcreek Township, Erie County, Pennsylvania)" seemed like a mouthful.

Faulkner House

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{{subst:requested move|Faulkner House (Acton, Massachusetts)|reason=Per WP:PRECISE and WP:QUALIFIER
Both the Faulkner House in Action, Massachusetts and the Faulkner House (Charlottesville, Virginia) are heritage listed houses in the United States. The one in MA gets about 3 views a day while the one in VA gets 2, see here, so it doesn't feel like there's a clear primary topic. (The existing title could be repurposedinto a disambiguation page that also includes: Judge Franklin Faulkner House, George Washington Faulkner House, Barrett-Faulkner House, Falcon Rest, and Rowan Oak.)

Scouts (Australia)

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{{subst:requested move|Scouts (Scouts Australia)|Per WP:PRECISE and WP:QUALIFIER
Several scouting groups call their original programme "Scouts" which is inherently confusing. The current tile of Scouts (Australia) seems too similar to both Scouts Australia (the primary topic) and readers might also confuse it with the topic of Scouting and Guiding in Australia. The equivalent articles disambiguate with the full organisation name: Scouts (Scouting Ireland), Scouts (Baden-Powell Scouts' Association), Scouts (Scouts Canada), Scouts (The Scout Association). -

The Children's Museum (Pennsylvania)

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{{subst:requested move|Bloomsburg Children's Museum| (leaving redirect) Per WP:NAMECHANGES
The Bloomsburg Children's Museum used to be known by this more generic name but the organization now describes themselves this way and the local TV station and local NPR station both refer to it as the "Bloomsburg Children's Museum". I couldn't find a reliable source announcing the name change, maybe because it happened organically over time. (Note: I recently rewrote the article and boldly used the current name but am always open to feedback.) -

Destinations

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{{subst:requested move|Girl Scout Desintations|Per WP:PRECISE
Girl Scout Destinations is a travel program of the Girl Scouts of the USA. The program is known as "Girl Scout Destinations" as per the program web site right here. I understand the current name is shorter, but a pluralizing a common noun seems to vague here, especially since the program is notable but not universally known. -

Destinations

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{{subst:requested move|Girl Scout Desintations|Per WP:PRECISE
Girl Scout Destinations is a travel program of the Girl Scouts of the USA. The program is known as "Girl Scout Destinations" as per the program web site right here. I understand the current name is shorter, but a pluralizing a common noun seems to vague here, especially since the program is notable but not universally known. -

Boy Scouts of America

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{{subst:requested move|Scouting America|

NBC News SA with former name mentioned Harvard Press New York Times Catholic News Agency https://6abc.com/post/philadelphia-scouts-collect-thousand-pounds-food/18159661/ sa, tag as bsa

just SA WQAD CBS News Spectrum News

just BSA Owatonna People's Press Central Oregon Daily News

SA in headline, BSA in body Galveston County Daily News BSA then SA AP News

Zion Lutheran Church (East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania)

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{{subst:requested move|Zion Lutheran Church (Middle Smithfield Township, Pennsylvania)|
The article correctly states that this church is east of East Stroudsburg but that's in Middle Smithfield Township, Pennsylvania. Of course we have countless buildings in unincorporated areas of U.S. counties that are disambiguated to the nearest municipality, but that's not the case here because very square inch of the state is covered by townships. The current title is just inaccurate. (Totally open to alternate renames but do note we have another Zion Lutheran in PA.) -

Johnson County War (film)

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{{subst:requested move|Johnson County War (miniseries)] When I was updating the categories, I noticed that this is a miniseries rather than a single film so the proposed title is more accurate and most of disambiguated articles in Category:Hallmark Channel miniseries also use "(miniseries)". Finally, while there's not an article yet, the Burt Reynolds made-for-TV movie is likely notable and was titled The Johnson County War. -

Siddique filmography

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{{subst:requested move|Siddique (actor) filmography|Per WP:PRECISE Both Siddique (actor) and Siddique (director) are mononymous and contributed enough to Malayalam cinema to justify a stand-alone filmography article, although only the actor has one so far. Not totally crazy about my proposed new name, if anyone has a better suggestion. (Or we can deal with this if/when a second article appears.) -

Gem Theatre

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{{subst:requested move | current1 = Gem Theatre | new1 = Gem Theatre (Detroit) | current2 = Gem Theater | new2 = Gem Theater (Deadwood, South Dakota) | reason = Wikipedia used to have just these two articles with similar names distinguished by the spelling theater/re. Thanks to a hatnote on each, that worked out just fine for readers. But this year another editor and I have published three new articles:

While all five are prominent in their communities, none come close to being a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for an international readership of the encyclopedia. (Since most of these buildings have not been totally consistent with how they spell theatre/er, I suggest we create a single disambiguation page forth both spellings list like we do with Paramount Theater and Fox Theatre.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 22:04, 2 January 2026 (UTC)

Daughters of Isis

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{{subst:requested move|Imperial Court (organization)|Per WP:NAMECHANGES but leaving redirect. The organization changed their name back in 2014 to avoid being confused with the terrorist group (reliable source), (official website). Note that Imperial Court is a disambiguation page. Alternatively, we could go with Imperial Court (Freemasonry) to match Knights Templar (Freemasonry). -

Brown's Hall-Thompson's Opera House

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{{subst:requested move|Thompson's Opera House|

Per WP:COMMONAME

When the NRHP listed this property in 1984, it was vacant so it made sense to hyphenate various past names. Now that the building is restored and in use, this seems to clearly be the name in use per: the official Facebook page, the local paper of record, the Chamber of Commerce, and the lettering on the front of the building iteself. (If this passes, we should leave the name on the infobox unchanged per the style guide.) -

Sugar Cane farmers unions in Fiji

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{{subst:requested move|Sugar cane grower associations in Fiji|Per WP:COMMONAME (WP:LOWERCASE) While residents of western towns may have used "Boot Hill", contemporary sources generally add "cemtery" to be clearer and that clarity would make sense for our encylopedia readers as well. (Alternatively, if we want to keep the current title, this is a generic term not a formal noun so the h in "hill" should be lower case: Boot hill.)

List of YMCA buildings

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{{subst:requested move|List of YMCA buildings and structures| We have a few articles on YMCA structures that are not buildings (i.e. they are not enclosed with a roof) like the YMCA Sign, Hampton Pool, and 44th and Parkside Ballpark. I think readers of this list would also be interested in those so I'm proposing that we expand the scope so I can add them. The proposed name matches an existing format used with Category:Lists of buildings and structures by type and List of Improved Order of Red Men buildings and structures. (If this passes, I'll speedy rename Category:YMCA buildings to match the consensus here.) -

Timeline of Fauquier County, Virginia in the Civil War

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{{subst:requested move|Timeline of Fauquier County, Virginia, in the American Civil War|Per WP:MILMOS, MOS:GEOCOMMA This article is about the American Civil War so we should follow that naming format and a comma should also go after the state name, both per clear naming conventions. This will also bring this article into line with Category:Fauquier County, Virginia, in the American Civil War and Loudoun County, Virginia, in the American Civil War. -

Loudoun County in the American Civil War

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{{subst:requested move|Loudoun County, Virginia, in the American Civil War|Per WP:USPLACE, MOS:GEOCOMMA, and WP:PRECISE This article is about Loudoun County, Virginia so we should follow that naming format and a comma should also go after the state name, both per clear naming conventions. Also Loudon County, Tennessee saw at least some action in the Civil War so the title is ambiguous. -

Skunk River

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{{subst:requested move|Skunk River (Iowa)|Per WP:PRECISE, WP:PLACEDAB and WP:NCRIVER. This river flows through rural Iowa directly into the Mississippi while the Skunk River (Platte River tributary) flows through rural Minnesota indirectly into the Mississippi. If I had to pick one to be the primary topic it would be this one since it's longer, but neither is prominent enough to avoid ambiguity. Indeed, I just corrected links to the wrong Skunk River on the Hillman, Minnesota, Pierz, Minnesota, and Genola, Minnesota articles. -

Big Blue River (Kansas)

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{{subst:requested move|Big Blue River (Kansas River tributary)|Per WP:PRECISE, WP:PLACEDAB and WP:NCRIVER. This river flows through Nebraska and then Kansas while the Blue River (Missouri River tributary) flows through Kansas then Missouri. Since both go through Kansas I don't think the current disambiguation is sufficent. (Alternatively, Big Blue River (Nebraska–Kansas) would work too but it seemed better to use the same format.) -

Illinois River (Oklahoma)

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{{subst:requested move|Illinois River (Arkansas–Oklahoma)|Per WP:PRECISE, WP:PLACEDAB and WP:NCRIVER. About half of this river is in one state and half in the other (per this not so great map) so I think it makes sense to inclue both states in the parentheses. (Note that the 2015 RM above was to trade one state name for the other, where this is meant to be more holistic.)

Looking at other examples like Sabine River (Texas–Louisiana), White River (Arkansas–Missouri), and Iroquois River (Indiana-Illinois) the practice seems to be to order the states by the order of the river goes through them which I followed. Being precise seems especially important here to avoid confusion with the "state" of Illinois.

Dallas Hilton

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{{subst:requested move|Hotel Indigo Dallas Downtown|Per WP:NAMECHANGES and WP:COMMONNAME but leaving redirect. While this hotel has a close association with Conrad Hilton, it has operated as a Hotel Indigo since 2006 (secondary source) and the proposed name reflects actual usage (primary source). I don't think we should automatically rename articles for every corporate rebranding but here it's an accuracy issue since Indigo is part of the Intercontinental Hotels Group, a direct Hilton competitor. -

Metropolitan Club

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{{subst:requested move|Metropolitan Club (New York City)|Per WP:PRECISE and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. It's not so much that the phrase "Metropolitan Club" doesn't have a primary topic, it's just that the primary topic varies by context:

Since we have readers from many contexts, I think it makes sense to rename this article and repurpose this page name to a disambiguation. This follows the model of Cosmopolitan Club (New York City)/Cosmopolitan Club. -

  • Note If this passes, links in biographies and other articles will need to be updated, which I'm happy to do. -

Regional Planning Councils

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{{subst:requested move|Florida Regional Planning Councils|Per WP:PRECISE and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This is a Florida specific article but the name combines three current words. If you Google the phrase, the top result is for the National Association of Regional Councils in Washington, D.C. While we don't have an article for that organization yet, the fact that there's a national trade group means there's a lot of these around the country. The proposed name would be more precise so readers would find the content they expect from the title. -

General Land Office

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{{subst:requested move|United States General Land Office|Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, WP:PRECISE, WP:NATURAL. The federal General Land Office was the agency that surveyed and then transferred title to formerly Native American lands in the American west while the Texas General Land Office continues to control most public land in Texas and manages a multi-billion dollar college fund. It's not so much that there isn't a primary topic as there are two for different contexts: if you open a history book and it refers to the GLO, it's going to be this agency that lasted until 1946. But if you're interested in contemporary politics, the Texas agency will be the primary topic: a Google search of "General Land Office" excluding Wikipedia pages had 8 out of 10 for the state agency and, obviously, 10 out of 10 for news articles. The proposed rename was the formal title and serves as a natural disambiguation. -

  • Note If this nomination passes, I'll speedy rename the corresponding categories. -

Speedy CFD Nominations

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WP:G4 Repost Speedy Delete Nominations

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Other Speedy

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Article Ideas

Double pile architcture

Pilgrim Tercentenary

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IORM

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Kiwanis

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Tougaloo, Mississippi

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Polish National Alliance Headquarters

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Other article Ideas

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Supreme Court Cases

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