User talk:YellowTurtle9
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May 2023
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Hello, I'm Mattythewhite. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Kingsley Coman, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
November 2024
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Please do not use styles that are nonstandard, unusual, inappropriate or difficult to understand in articles, as you did in Alexander N'Doumbou. There is a Manual of Style, and edits should not deliberately go against it without special reason. Please follow WP:FOOTY standards for ambiguous nationalities. Anwegmann (talk) 15:15, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Anwegmann Well, thanks for letting me know WP:FOOTY, but there's no direct link or post about ambiguous nationality inside in the article. Also, the source No. 2 has information that though he played inside the Gabon national team, he renounced the Gabonese nationality and re-obtaioned the Chinese citizenship to play for the Shanghai Shenhua. Is there any deeper information about it(Like other football player examples)? --YellowTurtle9 (talk) 15:23, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Nearly every footballer who with ambiguous nationality is an example—this has been a standing consensus for more than 10 years. There are hundreds upon hundreds of examples— When a player was born in one country but represents another, the lede is ambiguous. Indeed, I don't believe N'Doumbou's lede should be ambiguous. I believe that he should be listed as a Gabonese footballer, because he represented Gabon internationally and cannot represent China internationally, but I am willing to agree with it being ambiguous in good faith. However, adding "Chinese" to the lede is demonstrably incorrect and against decades-old consensus. Anwegmann (talk) 16:10, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- I see... I understand your opinion, but as you know, People's Republic of China(commonly China in English Wikipedia) prohibits its citizens of getting multi nationalities, his legal nationality status is only Chinese, not Gabonese(as he renounced Gabon passport in the source, and other user's Edit summary). But thinking that he previously represented Gabon internationally, for me, it can be said that his lede has to be dealt with ambiguity. --YellowTurtle9 (talk) 09:28, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nearly every footballer who with ambiguous nationality is an example—this has been a standing consensus for more than 10 years. There are hundreds upon hundreds of examples— When a player was born in one country but represents another, the lede is ambiguous. Indeed, I don't believe N'Doumbou's lede should be ambiguous. I believe that he should be listed as a Gabonese footballer, because he represented Gabon internationally and cannot represent China internationally, but I am willing to agree with it being ambiguous in good faith. However, adding "Chinese" to the lede is demonstrably incorrect and against decades-old consensus. Anwegmann (talk) 16:10, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Abdukodir Khusanov
[edit]Yes, the source isn't in the infobox, but a source for his full name is. The one you've just restored to the page does not even confirm the second part of his name, and in fact only states "Abdukodir Khusanov" in the list of players, so it doesn't seem as though it's really needed. Vasil3fonov (talk) 09:08, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
- I know what you mean as I'm the one who found and uploaded the source for his Uzbek language version name via other users' help from Uzbek Wikipedia. However, Uzbek people usually have two versions of their name(Russian Cyrillic and Pure Uzbek version), and he externally uses Russian Cyrillic-anglicized name(Abdukodir Khusanov derived from Абдукодир Хусанов), not Pure Uzbek name(Abduqodir Xusanov). As his external name is derived from Russian Cyrillic version, then his middle name(Patronymic name) becomes 'Khikmatovich(Хикматович)' according to Eastern Slavic naming customs.
- Also, there are some sources that indicates his middle name as 'Khikmatovich(Хикматович)', I'm trying to approach this matter more carefully. Per now, I'm talking this matter with Mattythewhite Administrator, so please hold on. --YellowTurtle9 (talk) 09:18, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
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Re:Central Asians' names
[edit]I can't see any reason, why the romanisation of Russian should be apllied to Uzbek names. 'International' Uzbek name forms, eg. Abdukodir Khusanov, are generally based on transcriptions from Uzbek passports, in which "ж" is never represented as "zh", it's always "j" (and non-Uzbek "дж" is represented as "dj"). You can compare this with the names of other Uzbek participants in the 2026 World Cup, for example: - Alijonov, not Alizhonov, Jiyanov, not Zhiyanov, Jamshid, not Zhamshid, Jakhongir, not Zhakhongir. Uzbek passports don't include patronymic names in the 'international' form (they do only in Uzbek, example), so I'm not sure if we should include them in the article. Even if so, I disagree that it should be transliterated as 'Khikmatzhon', as this deviates from the principles of modern Uzbek name transliteration. Khan Tengri (talk) 14:22, 25 June 2026 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply and information. Though the name writing style has quite changed by the information you wrote above, Central Asias' people and places' names were usually handled to western countries by the Romanization of Russian name contexts. Uzbekistan, similar to Azerbaijan, the official uzbek language letter is Roman not Cyrillic, russian languages are also the common language of the country and the romanization of russian has influenced to the english form of those languages(though Russian is more common to elders). Uzbekistan(O'zbekiston), Tashkent(Toshkent) are some examples of that.
- For Khusanov(Xusanov), the "Kh" is the Romanization of Russian letter Х, as uzbek language uses "X" for the letter. I find and wrote the Uzbek full name(also the patronymic) source based on the government official records as written in the source as you can find inside the citation. But, as the middle name is not written in the international passports, I also became skeptical that if we should always translate the patronymic name in English context. --YellowTurtle9 (talk) 14:49, 25 June 2026 (UTC)
- I think it would be reasonable to remove the patronymic from the 'international' form and only include it in the original Uzbek form. It's good that you're using official government records such as presidential decrees. As far as I know, the names written in them are, in most cases, consistent with the Uzbek forms on those people's documents, such as passports or birth certificates. Regarding the latinisation of Uzbek 'X' and 'H', please be aware that it's somewhat random, meaning that the original 'X' can be 'internationalised' as either 'Kh' or 'H', or sometimes it's even left untouched (eg. Xamrobekov or Abdixolikov), and the same applies to the original 'H' - it can be transcribed as either 'H' or 'Kh'. Khan Tengri (talk) 17:21, 25 June 2026 (UTC)
- That will be a good style for the writing, as FIFA and AFC documents don't mention the patronymic name inside the official squad list documents(Don't know the reason why they omit their full names in passports though, maybe asking the people in Uzbek wikipedia will be a great help?). Though making this style to WP:Policy is another process, citing or writing the name information in edit summary or Article citation will help people understand the name information better. Mukhammadkodir Khamraliev will be a one example of the writing concept mentioned above. --YellowTurtle9 (talk) 21:51, 25 June 2026 (UTC)
- Omitting the patronymic is common in passports from former Soviet Union republics. For example, in Russian and Belarusian documents, only the last name and first name are latinised, even though the patronymic is mentioned in the original language. Regarding Khamraliev - if the spelling of his surname in his passport is KhamrAliev, then his original Uzbek surname cannot be HamrOliyev. This is because the 'internationalised' forms keep the original vowels, except for the change from o' to u. Unfortunately, the National Olympic Committee of Uzbekistan website is not the best source for original forms, as it has a tendency towards Uzbekisation and hypercorrection disregarding the official documents, as does the Uzbek Wikipedia. For footballers currently playing in Uzbekistan, I recommend using the official match reports on the Uzbekistan Professional Football League website (those blue "Squad list" buttons), eg. Pakhatakor vs Qizilqum - you can see that it's "Hamraliyev" there. As far as I know, they use the original Uzbek forms from the documents. Khan Tengri (talk) 21:27, 26 June 2026 (UTC)
- I see... Regarding Khamraliev, I've searched more information regarding the link above. UZPFL indicates his Uzbek surname as "Hamroaliyev", but Pakhtakor FC indicates his surname as "Ҳамралиев", in Uzbek Cyrillic form. Thinking of the Uzbek alphabet transcription between Latin and Cyrillic, "Hamraliyev" will be the proper surname of him. Thanks for the good source about Uzbek football players' names, but for me, the National Olympic Committee of Uzbekistan is also the good reference about the name, as the site has information of Uzbek sports players' names not only the football, but also other types of sports especially for the Olympics.
- Oh, speaking of Uzbek Wikipedia, I remember that there were some cases of wrong information of the names, as I was one of them who engaged the discussion of Khusanov(Xusanov)'s name information in there. I sometimes fix the names in there. --YellowTurtle9 (talk) 23:07, 26 June 2026 (UTC)
- As you mentioned the Belarusian language in the reply, Is there any good ways to approach the names of the Belarusians? You know, Central Asian countries like Azer and Uzbek, Kazakh, Turkmen, and also Ukraine sucessfully adopted their native language and letter systems after the USSR, but Belarus, as their leader Lukashenko's pro-russian attitude, the spread of Belarusian was quite low and Belarusians still use Russian as their No.1 language. So I sometimes get confused whether I should translate Belarusians' names in Russian context or Belarusian context. --YellowTurtle9 (talk) 23:12, 26 June 2026 (UTC)
- Omitting the patronymic is common in passports from former Soviet Union republics. For example, in Russian and Belarusian documents, only the last name and first name are latinised, even though the patronymic is mentioned in the original language. Regarding Khamraliev - if the spelling of his surname in his passport is KhamrAliev, then his original Uzbek surname cannot be HamrOliyev. This is because the 'internationalised' forms keep the original vowels, except for the change from o' to u. Unfortunately, the National Olympic Committee of Uzbekistan website is not the best source for original forms, as it has a tendency towards Uzbekisation and hypercorrection disregarding the official documents, as does the Uzbek Wikipedia. For footballers currently playing in Uzbekistan, I recommend using the official match reports on the Uzbekistan Professional Football League website (those blue "Squad list" buttons), eg. Pakhatakor vs Qizilqum - you can see that it's "Hamraliyev" there. As far as I know, they use the original Uzbek forms from the documents. Khan Tengri (talk) 21:27, 26 June 2026 (UTC)
- That will be a good style for the writing, as FIFA and AFC documents don't mention the patronymic name inside the official squad list documents(Don't know the reason why they omit their full names in passports though, maybe asking the people in Uzbek wikipedia will be a great help?). Though making this style to WP:Policy is another process, citing or writing the name information in edit summary or Article citation will help people understand the name information better. Mukhammadkodir Khamraliev will be a one example of the writing concept mentioned above. --YellowTurtle9 (talk) 21:51, 25 June 2026 (UTC)
- I think it would be reasonable to remove the patronymic from the 'international' form and only include it in the original Uzbek form. It's good that you're using official government records such as presidential decrees. As far as I know, the names written in them are, in most cases, consistent with the Uzbek forms on those people's documents, such as passports or birth certificates. Regarding the latinisation of Uzbek 'X' and 'H', please be aware that it's somewhat random, meaning that the original 'X' can be 'internationalised' as either 'Kh' or 'H', or sometimes it's even left untouched (eg. Xamrobekov or Abdixolikov), and the same applies to the original 'H' - it can be transcribed as either 'H' or 'Kh'. Khan Tengri (talk) 17:21, 25 June 2026 (UTC)