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Cover more about where Ali initially trained -- the Columbia Gym which was in the basement of Columbia Auditorium (now a part of Spalding University and is a key building in a NRHP multiple resources area).
Someone needs to look at the the Economist article that states Ali took over 200,000 hits in his career. Assuming it just refers to his professional career, that would work out to over 3,000 hits per fight, a simply ludicrous number that can't possibly be true. Even if he took 1/10th that many hits, it would still be a huge number for a heavyweight.
Plagiarism: Ali recited a poem and claimed to have written it himself: [1]
"I just wrote a poem the other day entitled 'Truth.'"
The words he delivered so beautifully are from a teacher of Universal Sufism, named Hazrat Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan. They appear in his collected "Sayings" in "Nirtan: Dance / Alankaras: The fanciful expression of an idea." You can find it in context here.
The more I research Ali, the more it occurs to me that he saw himself as an ambassador for his hometown of Louisville. We should find a way to fit in coverage of that.
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Michael Deacon (March 28, 2015). "My Wikipedia page is completely wrong, but I can't be caught correcting it". The Telegraph. Retrieved March 29, 2015. Once, when I was working at a men's magazine, a colleague was compiling a quiz about Muhammad Ali. As a test, I inserted a banal lie into Ali's Wikipedia biography (I said a species of rose, rosa ali, is named after him). Innocently my colleague incorporated the lie into his quiz. Ten years later, on Ali's frequently updated Wikipedia page, that lie is still there.
Cover more about where Ali initially trained -- the Columbia Gym which was in the basement of Columbia Auditorium (now a part of Spalding University and is a key building in a NRHP multiple resources area).
Someone needs to look at the the Economist article that states Ali took over 200,000 hits in his career. Assuming it just refers to his professional career, that would work out to over 3,000 hits per fight, a simply ludicrous number that can't possibly be true. Even if he took 1/10th that many hits, it would still be a huge number for a heavyweight.
Plagiarism: Ali recited a poem and claimed to have written it himself: [2]
"I just wrote a poem the other day entitled 'Truth.'"
The words he delivered so beautifully are from a teacher of Universal Sufism, named Hazrat Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan. They appear in his collected "Sayings" in "Nirtan: Dance / Alankaras: The fanciful expression of an idea." You can find it in context here.
The more I research Ali, the more it occurs to me that he saw himself as an ambassador for his hometown of Louisville. We should find a way to fit in coverage of that.
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Muhammad Ali (born Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr.; January 17, 1942 – June 3, 2016) was an American professional boxer and activist widely regarded as one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time and a significant cultural icon. Nicknamed "The Greatest" and "The People's Champion", he was the first fighter to win the world heavyweight championship on three separate occasions, accumulating a professional record of 56 wins and five losses. His career was defined by historic bouts such as "The Fight of the Century" against Joe Frazier, "The Rumble in the Jungle" against George Foreman, and "The Thrilla in Manila".
Beyond the ring, Ali was a controversial and prominent figure during the Civil Rights Movement. He converted to the Nation of Islam (later transitioning to Sunni Islam) and changed his name, denouncing his birth name as a "slave name". In 1967, citing his religious beliefs and opposition to the Vietnam War, he famously refused military induction, stating, "I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong". He was stripped of his titles and banned from boxing for nearly four years at the peak of his career; his conviction for draft evasion was unanimously overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1971. Ali's outspokenness on race, religion, and politics made him a symbol of conviction and a global humanitarian up until his death in 2016 from septic shock. Supbro2057 (talk) 16:43, 9 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
In the "Later Life" section, I believe this is a worthwhile change:
−
After Ali met alesbiancouplewhowerefansofhisin1997,hesmiledandsaid to friend and biographer Thomas Hauser, "They look like they're happy together." Hauser wrote about the story, "The thought that Liz and Roz(thelesbiancouplehemet) were happy pleased Muhammad. Ali wanted people to be happy."
+
In 1997 Ali met [[Elizabeth Swados]] and her future wife. Afterwards, according to friend and biographer Thomas Hauser, Ali smiled and said "They look like they're happy together." Hauser wrote about the story, "The thought that Liz and Roz were happy pleased Muhammad. Ali wanted people to be happy."
This better reflects the given source which explictly mentions the noteworthy Swados and does not say that she or her partner were fans of Ali. ~2026-17721-76 (talk) 23:51, 21 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I would also support the paragraph's removal over what currently exists. I think it is trying to evidence a shift in Ali's social views later in life, which would be valuable to include if supported, but Hauser says in the source that he doesn't know how Ali's views evolved. ~2026-17721-76 (talk) 20:07, 22 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's clear that Hauser is implying that Ali's wish for people to be happy was at least as important to him as interpretations of the Qu’ran on homosexuality.--Jahalive (talk) 20:58, 5 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
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There has been recent changes made to this article surrounding the use of Ali's slave name when describing him when he was young. His chosen name should be used in these sections because it is the standard on Wikipedia to refer to people by their chosen name (even if they aren't trans, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dylan).
(also sorry if this is all phrased weirdly, I'm new to editing Wikipedia) PeanutButterSandwich2 (talk) 23:32, 24 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Ali was named Cassius Marcellus Clay after an abolitionist. Describing that as a 'slave name' seems odd, to say the least. And given that Ali began his boxing career under that name, it seems reasonable enough to use it when referring to his early career. For the record, we sometimes do that same for trans people, if they have been a significant subject of public attention prior to their change of name. On the whole, this is the way biographies tend to be written elsewhere too, since doing otherwise leads to all sorts of anachronisms, and has nothing to do with slavery, racism, or anything else beyond accuracy and following the sources we cite. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:51, 24 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Ali was named Cassius Marcellus Clay after an abolitionist. Describing that as a 'slave name' seems odd, to say the least. And yet, Ali himself has described it this way and our article does discuss this. More broadly, this terminology is used by and in reference to other African Americans who have changed their names whether or not the description is strictly accurate. That's not to say there is no merit to the rest of your argument, but I wouldn't dismiss the 'slave name' concern on a technicality. —Myceteae🍄🟫 (talk) 20:23, 28 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
His name, Muhammad Ali, is used for periods when he used that. The bottom line is this is the subject's standard name change from the name he was given by his parents. He was Clay when he started fighting, and Ali starting in 1964. the Stefen 𝕋ower02:12, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I describe it as a "slave name" because that is how Ali described it. I think it can lead to confusion because of using multiple different names to refer to the same person in the same article, but you do make some good point. PeanutButterSandwich2 (talk) 03:32, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
A complicating factor for this subject is that Ali was world-famous under his given name (or slave name as you put it). He was named Clay for the Olympics and Clay when he first defeated Sonny Liston. We cannot erase posters, descriptions, etc. from this earlier period of his fame. Ultimately we do not want to confuse the reader by calling him Ali plainly when the sources from the earlier times are saying Clay. If we're going to call him Ali throughout, he have to connect to the earlier sources somehow, and saying things like "Ali while still named Clay" is clunky. the Stefen 𝕋ower02:33, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
You could say the same about Elliot Page. Many sources from earlier times refer to him as her, yet the article describes Page with he/him pronouns throughout, including early life. Finlandestonia (talk) 11:29, 25 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't say they are the same. One's gender is in one's mind, and therefore it makes sense to show them as their realized gender all along. For Ali, he fully voluntarily decided (the key part) on a change in his religion and name, after being world-famous as Clay. At any rate, the bottom line for me is that we don't lose readers new to the subject because they see sources and images showing 'Clay' while we say merely 'Ali' in the text. the Stefen 𝕋ower05:55, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@StefenTower Respectfully, why does that matter? If someone has changed their name for any reason, that should be respected and reflected by the Wikipedia, except in only exceptional circumstances. Royz-vi Tsibele (talk) 00:50, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I have decided to not respond to anything else in this thread, as I am not a party to the edit conflict. In my view, I have already completely explained my position anyway. the Stefen 𝕋ower00:54, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Would it not be less confusing for readers if the article correctly uses the name Ali gave himself throughout the entire article? The article is extremely clunky if it used the same name throughout the entire article. Readers aren't idiots, they know Ali changed his name and thus old posters will have his slave name. The fact that he changed his name is literally in the first paragraph of the article. Readers aren't idiots and it's extremely disrespectful for the article to continue using a name that he disavowed. ~2026-32430-77 (talk) 22:09, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Elliot Page is an instructive comparison (though there may be better examples). Both were/are well-known using their birth name and used it professionally before the name change. Page did not change his last name, which provides an easy solution to just use that throughout most of the article. The name 'Ellen' does appear a few places, for example under character and episode titles under Elliot Page § Filmography and in a couple explanatory notes. Ali changed every part of his name, so we don't have such a straightforward solution. —Myceteae🍄🟫 (talk) 20:16, 28 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
A more apt example might be Hailey Bieber who was in the news as Hailey Baldwin before marriage and her last name is still written as Bieber throughout. Enfyslemle (talk) 05:14, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
That's a maiden name, which I don't believe correlates well here. Ali was internationally famous as Clay as I stated above, and we need to correlate that for the reader somehow. the Stefen 𝕋ower05:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Hailey was famous as a Baldwin and the family Baldwin family is famous. Look at the citations, she was having articles written about her as a Baldwin. Why does that not have to correlate to readers? Enfyslemle (talk) 06:01, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
You are saying that because there were pictures of Ali with the caption Clay that it would be confusing to not call him Clay. There are publications about Bieber cited as Baldwin, so why would it confuse readers here, but not there. Enfyslemle (talk) 06:06, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
At any rate, the bottom line for me is that we don't lose readers new to the subject because they see sources and images showing 'Baldwin' while we say merely 'Bieber' in the text. Enfyslemle (talk) 06:07, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
In either case, we should ensure in prose that the reader is not lost on who we are referring to per the context. But in the case of a maiden name to married name conversion, that is very common and readers may tend to be less potentially confused. the Stefen 𝕋ower06:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Changing your maiden name is still a choice and there are people who still get referred to on wikipedia by their maiden name even after marriage. I guess Wikipedia does have the convention to go with whatever name is most known and not honor how a person wanted to be known. An example for that is Marie Curie, who would have preferred to be known by Skłodowska Curie. The reason people say that we need to keep just Curie is because that is how she is commonly referred to. The name Cassius Clay to refer to Ali is considered a trivia/fun fact, but the average person doesn't actually know that name. His contemporaries might have known the name, but that doesn't make it current common parlance when talking about him. And to say that well people will be confused if they see something about Cassius Clay, we are not removing the name entirely. It will still be referranced in literally the first line of the article and will still be the wikipedia redirect. Enfyslemle (talk) 06:18, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
As editors we must take care that readers don't lose their place, and merely mentioning Clay in the first line isn't quite enough. We will need to maintain connecting cues. It is the right thing to do in the face of the imagery and the sourcing of the earlier times. We are not just writing for today - you must consider how people were seen by their contemporaries - that is how history is written. the Stefen 𝕋ower06:26, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
As editors we must take care that readers don't lose their place, and merely mentioning Clay in the first line isn't quite enough. We will need to maintain connecting cues. This is true, but there are multiple ways to handle this, as well as multiple possible sources of confusion or irritation for readers. The concept of name changes is not foreign to people. If Jane Doe changed her name to Jane Smith at age 25 and we write Smith graduated at age 18 most readers will not be confused. Where relevant, we can default to the most familiar name but clarify when a name was changed or which name the subject used at a particular point in time. Prince (musician) § 1991–1996: Name change, Diamonds and Pearls and The Gold Experience and the article section that follows provides a good example of how to do this. Some readers may find it jarring, confusing, or distracting that we use different names throughout the article. Readers may jump directly to a section in the middle of the article, either via the table of contents or by clicking a link to a section. Although the name Cassius Clay is widely known, there will be readers who are unfamiliar with it. Those readers may be confused when they start reading about Clay instead of Ali. —Myceteae🍄🟫 (talk) 14:50, 30 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
This reflects a misunderstanding of my position. I have never said we cannot call him Ali all along. Just that we maintain a few cues so that the reader understands he was Clay during major events of his earlier career. We should respect Ali and not lose the reader, at the same time. This is a repeat of what I've been saying, but since you are maintaining wiki composure, I just repeated it, hopefully for final clarity. Now, I'm really bowing out of this discussion. I'm too busy with other things to dwell on this. the Stefen 𝕋ower11:20, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@StefenTower You know exactly what this kind editor is talking about. The double-standard of allowing trans people and women to be referred to by their chosen name in their articles, but not Black people, is frankly very silly. Reflect on the connotations that your argument implies. Why do trans people and women deserve the right to change their name, but not Black people? Royz-vi Tsibele (talk) 00:56, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I would advise to not treat this page as a political forum. This has nothing to do with Ali being Black. I am anti-racist and see Ali as a personal hero. I have already made my points above. I am not repeating them. the Stefen 𝕋ower11:13, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@StefenTower I was not attempting to treat this page as a political forum. I stumbled across this page by chance without knowing about the prior website-wide discussions beforehand. Royz-vi Tsibele (talk) 19:46, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
From my perspective you are using the argument of treating this like a political forum to ignore the real point that Royz-vi is making. The policy being used here is actively inconsistent with Wikipedia. Why should this specific instance be given an exception. If you want to argue that this should be the standard here is my response. You mention how calling him Muhammad Ali before he adopted that name might confuse the reader however from my personal experience reading Wikipedia articles this has never confused me. For example, when I was reading the article on Piet Mondrian I could understand that he born with the last name Mondriaan and later changed it. I don't see how using their preferred name throughout and only mentioning their original name in a single line would confuse the reader. Having two different names for the same person in one article is more likely to confuse the reader. Ljfshdalsdhf (talk) 22:32, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I have nothing else to say. Some editors here are treating this as a political forum, and will never be satisified, by all appearances. I have been as clear as I know how to be. the Stefen 𝕋ower11:12, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Names are political though. And people will be satisfied with a good answer/ proposal rather than name calling.
For trans people, we never use the deadname even if there is a surname change and the person had significance before the name change. The questioning is valid because there is 0 consistency. Do not dismiss good arguments for "non-political" reasons. Byulharangforlife (talk) 23:35, 31 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Anti-racism implies willingness to interrogate structural bias and willingness to adapt to new information, not being "color-blind" to the fact that Ali is Black. The personal is political, and there are very few things as personal as names. Enfyslemle (talk) 05:25, 1 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Cutting to the heart of the question, my opinion is: be clear once in the lead and once in the body of the article that he changed his name from Clay to Ali, and otherwise just use Ali except where it would be inaccurate (e.g. changing a quote mentioning Clay). As it stands, we flip flop between them to the detriment of understanding. There are multiple paragraphs that alternate between Clay and Ali as though they are two different people -- evidence that the split serves neither writer nor reader. We don't need a change to the MOS to form a local consensus that this is a unique case worth addressing on its own merits. Because Ali was asked so frequently and so prominently about his name, and his opinions on the matter were so clear, and because his birth name was used specifically to harass/troll him for years, if there is a single case that merits an exception to existing rules, this is it. — Rhododendritestalk \\ 17:37, 1 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think this is a unique case. Ali's opinions on the matter belong in the article, but don't influence how the article is written. We follow the MOS and reliable sources.-- Jahalive (talk) 19:45, 1 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I guess the other example of people who famously changed their name is Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam, but he has not completely disavowed his former name. Sinéad O'Connor/Shuhada' Sadaqat also never completely abandoned her birth name. Both of these articles swap back and forth between names depending on context. I think married and maiden names are also just inconsistent throughout wikipedia articles, with some switching before and after marriage vs some just sticking with married names throughout. I am not sure if this really is a pattern of specifically denigrating black people (I am very willing to concede to being false on this if I can see more data). It almost seems like the pattern is religious name changes that need to be further interrogated (knowing there are also questions about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's name). Are there any other famous people, religious or not, who were famous before and also after they chose a new last name (first name is less important because wikipedia refers to people by their last name in the body of the text)? In the end, this comes down to historiography and whether or not someone's wishes should affect how we write history, which is a dissertation level question. Like I pointed out earlier, even people like Maria Skłodowska-Curie or Emma/Emily Stone are not necessarily addressed how they want to be. Enfyslemle (talk) 04:30, 2 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I agree we should standardize the default usage of "Ali" throughout. Reliable sources and the subject's personal preference both support this. We can continue to mention the name in use at a particular time where relevant and helpful. —Myceteae🌈 (talk) 18:41, 2 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Do we have any analyses of how contemporary reliable sources handle this question? Someone above suggested matching the naming to how sourcing at the time knew him – I think that's the wrong approach. I also think we shouldn't be getting into the murky waters of editorial discretion unless we have to. We should be first and foremost trying to understand how the best contemporary reliable sources are referring to Muhammad Ali throughout his life, and if that answer isn't clear or acceptable, only then should we be bringing up these finer points. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 09:01, 4 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
And I just want to be crystal-clear here: This is very likely to be a neutral point of view issue, not a Manual of Style issue. Reliable sources are not treating this as an idle stylistic issue – we are not talking about aesthetics or precision, as we do when we talk about the length of dashes or whether the "p" in "president" is capitalized. This is fundamentally a substantive issue about control over the narrative of Muhammad Ali's life, so if there is a consensus of the best contemporary reliable sources that Muhammad Ali's name change should be considered retroactive, that carries the force of NPOV, which supersedes the MoS 101 times out of 100. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 09:13, 4 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that there are NPOV implications but it is also an MOS question. Many style guides, including ours, include guidance on using names or terminology preferred by individuals and groups of people and address other usage questions that may reflect a POV. —Myceteae🌈 (talk) 15:32, 4 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
His preferred name was Muhammad Ali. The manual of style for changed names (MOS:CHANGEDNAME) states that you may list a persons birth name if relevant, which in this case it evidently is as Ali was famous under his birth-name before changing names, but implies that they should be referred to as their chosen name throughout. All modern sources I can find refer to him as Ali, the manual of style suggests he should be called Ali, he himself referred to his birth name as his "slave-name", from my perspective, there is no valid argument that he should be referred to by his birth-name outside of quotes and direct reference. Obviously, the events should remain "Clay Vs. {blank}", and quotes that refer to him by that name should remain but besides that it sets a bad precedent to repeatedly refer to this individual in a manner he himself strongly objected to. Percival Peredur (talk) 00:42, 12 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Overall, I agree we should be using Ali except where necessary (quotes, events, etc.) or helpful (clarification, context, when the name change or his use of each name, etc.). That said I find the MOS to be not super clear on this. Various parts of the guidance either don't address this particular situation, give conflicting recommendations, or appear at odds with actual practice. MOS:BIO#Anachronistic names says to usually use the name that the person used at the time that is being written about. This suggests we should use both names in different parts of the article but as I have argued the anachronistic names guidance doesn't align with how many biography articles are actually written. MOS:CHANGEDNAME says to list the birth name but doesn't tell us which one to use throughout. MOS:SURNAME says that surnames should be used throughout the article and that Any subject whose surname has changed should be referred to by their most commonly used name. The examples don't address the exact situation where a man changes his full name but otherwise this suggests we should use Ali. —Myceteae🌈 (talk) 01:12, 12 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
MOS:CHANGEDNAME states to initially state their birth-name, from my perspective it's logical to assume that means you should then refer to the person by the chosen name for the remainder of the article. To cite Elliot Page as an example, you would not expect "Elliot Page (born Ellen Page)" to begin an article but for the rest of the article to refer to him as Ellen, if the article is implying common practice is to refer to him as Elliot, it should refer to him as Elliot throughout. It's pointless to say "Muhummad Ali (born Cassius Clay)" if you're going to call him Cassius Clay for the whole article, because then that's not formerly his name that's actively his name.
If Wikipedia is going to refer to him as Cassius Clay for the duration of its article, then the opening should say "Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. (born January 17, 1942 - June 3, 2016), known professionally as Muhammad Ali", as that would more accurately reflect Wikipedia's stance on his name. Either that should be the opening of the article, and the name Clay should remain, or the opening should be unchanged and the article altered to reflect his chosen name - the current solution hangs between the two stances in an inconsistent and unclear manner. Percival Peredur (talk) 01:34, 12 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
There is a lot of back-and-forth and discussion of other examples yet a relative dearth of discussion on the article or any sources.
Uses of the name Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. and derivatives referring to Muhammad Ali. This does not count links to other articles (e.g. Sonny Liston vs. Cassius Clay), direct quotes (e.g. Frazier calling him "Cassius Clay"), or references to his father/namesake (to the best of my ability).
Bio: 1 (functionally necessary listing of birth name)
Bio box: 1 (functionally necessary listing of birth name)
Early Life: 4 (inc. 1 use specifying birth name)
Amateur career: 7 (pre-name change)
Professional Career: 41 total
Early Career: 18 (pre-name change)
World heavyweight champion: 23 (pre-name change)
Religion and Beliefs: 5 (discussion of the name change)
________
I've done some research into how Muhammad Ali referred to himself in the past. After doing so, I believe that the use of the name "Cassius Clay" during the time period he used it would align with his use. As examples:
In his 1976 Autobiography, Muhammad refers to his brother as Rudy during their childhood although by the time of writing the autobiography his brother had changed his name to Rahaman Ali
In the same autobiography, Muhammad Ali uses "Cassius Jr." and "Cassius Clay" without any note of its inaccuracy within contexts of the 1960 Olympics. Quoting from the book: 'Time magazine [said]: "Cassius never lets his Gold Medal out of his sight. He even sleeps with it." They were right. I ate with it, and wouldn't stop sleeping with it...' (pg. 56)
There are some other instances in the book where he similarly responds to past instances of the name "Cassius Clay"
In Rahaman Ali's own biography (published 2014), he refers to his brother as Cassius Clay Jr. during their childhood, and during his early career.
The Muhammad Ali website, which was operated by Muhammad Ali Enterprises, refers to a young Muhammad (into his early career) as Cassius Clay.
The Ali Center's website refers to him as Cassius Clay in their bio and in historical data.
I have gone over a few recent biographies, and the use of Cassius Clay Jr. to refer to Muhammad when it is chronologically sensible is the norm. I can find no counterexamples. I have looked at Huhmmad Ali by Tiscfhler (2015), Muhammad Ali by Ezra (2009), Muhammad Ali by Hannigan (2022), Muhammad Ali by Hauser (2012), Muhammad Ali by Routledge (2014) and Muhammad Ali by Shelton (2023). These were accessed via a Perlego subscription, I did not look for readily accessible copies.
All this said, it appears that the use of Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. and its derivatives in an appropriate historical context are in line with how Muhammad Ali, his brother, and knowledgeable sources from recent years use it.
Going over the Wikipedia article as it stands, I see no use of that name in an inappropriate context. The article appropriately switches to Muhammad Ali at his Rematch with Liston and does not use his birth name afterwards except where it is a quote, a reference (e.g. Clay v. United States), or a discussion of his name change (as seen in the Religion and Beliefs section)
I won't go into a discussion about the broader use of, as Ali said, "slave names," but it is my opinion it is not an undue burden on editors to approach on a case-by-case basis. In this instance, I would be comfortable keeping this specific article in its current state. Gatenerd (talk) 05:23, 14 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Why does the article spend so much time referring to Ali by a name he made very clear he rejected? The notorious"Say my name" incident makes that more than clear
He is far more famous under the name Muhammad Ali than Cassius Clay but more importantly in my eyes would be the precedent set by how trans people are referred to in their articles.
In Caitlyn Jenner's article does it refer to her as Bruce until she came out as trans? No it refers to her as Caitlyn throughout.
If I suggested that Elliot Page's article should refer to him by his birth name until it describes when he came out I'd be told no.
Why then when black people reject white names is their choice not respected? Is it not as valid to reject the identity of Cassius Clay as it is to reject Bruce Jenner?
To be clear I think it is correct that trans people get their chosen name in their articles I just think that anyone rejecting an old name should be given the same treatment Ghaithsunqur (talk) 21:02, 4 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Clarification, I feel that the name Clay should be removed except where absolutely necessary. I understand fights before his name change should maybe be referred to by Clay vs Whoever but they aren't people, they're events. The man himself should be referred to strictly as Ali Ghaithsunqur (talk) 21:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Ghaithsunqur thank you for contributing to the discussion. As you appear to have realized, this is essentially a repeat of the discussion above. I will change the heading section level so that this becomes a part of the discussion that was already ongoing when you added this. —Myceteae🌈 (talk) 01:17, 12 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
The redirect Mhd Ali has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2026 May 11 § Mhd Ali until a consensus is reached. 𝔅𝔦𝔰-𝔖𝔢𝔯𝔧𝔢𝔱𝔞? 20:27, 11 May 2026 (UTC)
