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I am new to all of this so please excuse any stupid questions. Is this page and its contents designed for interaction between me and the editors, or is it made available to the international community at large by you? Do I just list here any additions to my page which I feel will address questions you may have and then you will include them in my public page yourself if you decide to go further? I believe I have plenty of verified third party info. and personal bio info which seems to answer some of your questions. Thank you for your work and care to insure the objectiveness of your project as a whole! 7300Mobas7300Mobas (talk) 15:13, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

7300Mobas This talk page can be seen by anyone, if you wish to suggest an edit, please click on the link above that says "request corrections or suggest content here". Theroadislong (talk) 16:18, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Article being edited by its subject

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Subject has been advised multiple times about editing, as 7300Mobas, this article about him. Sanctions recommended if he fails to comply in future.--Quisqualis (talk) 21:22, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request edit on 8 February 2020

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Education: Michael B. Sabom received a BA degree with honors from Colorado College (1966) and was inducted into Phi Beta Kappa Society (https://www.pbk.org). He received his MD degree with honors from the University of Texas Medical Branch (1970) (https://alumni.utmb.edu/directory) and was inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Medical Society. He completed his cardiology training at the University of Florida (1978). Career: He joined the faculty of Emory University School of Medicine as an Assistant Professor of Medicine, Division of Cardiology (1978 - 1983) (Jacobs, Paul. "Near-Death Experiences: A Medical Debate Over Body, Mind, Los Angeles Times, Pg 1, March 29, 1982). He then became a medical doctor and cardiologist in Atlanta, US until retirement in 2017. He is a Fellow in the American College of Cardiology (https://www.acc.org/my-acc/) and a founding member and past Vice President of the International Association of Near-Death Studies (https://www.iands.org/research/'publications/vital-signs.html). He has lectured internationally on near-death studies; has been featured widely in major print and television media (Wallis, Claudia. "Medicine- Going Gentle into That Good Night: A doctor studies patients' recollections of dying." TIME February 8, 1982. pg.79); and has written over 3 dozen book chapters and professional articles in the fields of cardiology and near-death studies. His books have been published in 12 foreign languages. {Then pick up in the Career section with the sentence "He is the author of the book, Recollections …} and continue as written.

Thank you! I'm still (slowly) learning. 7300Mobas (talk) 22:23, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 7300Mobas. Some of that is a bit too promotional for Wikipedia. Some of it certainly belongs: the details about education and retirement, for example. But those also need to be sourced, and I couldn't find a source for Colorado College or for U Florida. (If you are Michael Sabom, then a link-in profile or similar would likely suffice for noncontroversial career details like this.) I added the founding of IANDS, which I found a source for. A similar comment goes for book chapters and articles. Those would require an independent source.
I'll mention for others that the Time article looks possibly helpful, but is behind a paywall. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 23:18, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, too promotional. Sourced with a dead link (iands). Education dates OK but not academic accolades. See: WP:NOPROMO.--Quisqualis (talk) 01:48, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
7300Mobas, I'll mention that one thing that someone connected with Michael Sabom could do for the article is to find a photo you like and have the copyright to, and arrange to upload it to [commons.wikipedia.org]. It needs to be licensed for anyone to use, and the copyright issues are easiest if the person who took the picture uploads it. (Then tell us the filename here, and we can add it to the article.) Russ Woodroofe (talk) 06:52, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Career section reworked

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I edited boldly and reworked the career section completely. Before, it was relatively incoherent. Now it has a couple of sentences about his career as a medical professor and doctor, before going into some detail about the books. @Quisqualis, Theroadislong, and 7300Mobas:, would you take a glance and make sure that it looks ok?
Comments: 1) I'm not entirely happy with the sourcing, particularly of the career details, but I think it's (barely) enough. The discussion of books is based on reviews, and should be better. 2) I removed a couple of references which were not in very much depth, and that I don't think were adding much. 3) There should be something to indicate that near-death experiences are a bit of a fringe topic, and e.g. that not all of his findings (particularly in the 2nd book) would be widely accepted by the medical profession. The Harris book is standing in for that purpose right now. I don't think it's doing a very good job at it, but don't have anything better at this moment. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 15:13, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. Has his work ("cited over 800 times according to Google Scholar") actually been cited in scientific journals?? I will add "in scientific journals".--Quisqualis (talk) 16:15, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Google Scholar doesn't restrict itself to science, nor to only journals (vs e.g. books), so I don't think "in scientific journals" is the right thing to say. Perhaps "in scholarly works" or "in academic works"? Russ Woodroofe (talk) 16:27, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request edit on 9 February 2020

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Russ Woodroofe has reworked the career section and asked me to "take a glance and make sure it looks OK". Being new to this process, I have been unable to find said reworked piece. Where exactly is it located? I do not want to break any rules. I really appreciate your patience with my learning curve here!

Michael Sabom--Quisqualis (talk) 02:17, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your best bet would be to ask the editor who mentioned the rewrite to see where it is located. That needn't require the use of the {{request edit}} template, which can be placed after your review is completed using the answered parameter (|ans=yes). If it was another reviewer asking you to review their work, then the template needn't be used at all, as it primarily exists for COI editor's to seek independent review from third party reviewers, not for reviewers to seek feedback from other reviewers who have already taken on the review.[a] Thank you for your help! Regards,  Spintendo  03:48, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  1. ^ Occassionally the template will be left open for a reviewer to seek out second opinions from other editors. In this case, the other review-editor has already been established, and need not be called back to answer questions using the request edit template. In those cases, a simple {{ping}} can be used.
To clarify one point, when you want to leave a message on the talk page, you can just click "Edit source" (at the top of the page) and scroll down to where you want to leave a message (generally the bottom). I edited the main article page, Michael Sabom. You can get back and forth between the article and its talk page by clicking "Article" and "Talk" at the top of the page. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 10:21, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the info and suggestions. I am working on it at present on the suggested changes and will get them to you in a couple of hours. Thanks again for everyone's help and advice! I really like the last main edit by Russ Woodroofe -- Thanks.7300Mobas (talk) 18:33, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested edits:

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Education: 7300Mobas (talk) 21:08, 10 February 2020 (UTC) Substitute for Reference 3 -- https://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Michael_B_Sabom/credentials[reply]

(No reference number yet) Finishing Cardiology fellowship, moving to Emory in Atlanta -- Sabom, Michael (1982) Recollections of Death, Pg. 13 (this reference is already in reference list for something else)

Career

Two suggested corrections to last sentence of Career involving Sam Harris on page 174 of his referenced book Waking Up: The information in this last sentence was taken from his book noted in Reference 11, pg. 174. In his book, Harris is clearly referring to the Pam Reynolds case and not my work in general. I suggest for clarity that the second word in our sentence "work" be changed to "case." In addition, Harris predicates this sentence by beginning it with the words "The possibility that experimental bias, etc." For accuracy, I suggest inserting the word "possible" before "experimental bias, etc." in our sentence for accuracy and clarity. [To be clear, Harris' sentence which I am talking about reads in full: "The possibility that experimenter bias, witness tampering (however unconscious), and false memories intruded into this best of all recorded cases is painfully obvious."

As a suggestion and in an effort to address the "fringe issue" problem of investigating NDEs, add the following clarifying sentence after Harris' sentence above: "Janice Holden, editor of Journal of Near-Death Studies, has recognized this case as containing 'the most detailed and objectively corroborated content [which] points most convincingly to the 'reality' of NDEs and all that such reality implies . . . , (Holden, J.M.(2009). "Veridical perception in near-death experiences." In J.M. Holden, B. Greyson, & D. James (Eds), The Handbook of near-death experiences: Thirty years of investigation. Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger/ABC-CLIO: 185 - 211.) but cautioned that "[r]etrospective veridical NDE cases like Reynolds provide imperfect data that probably can never result in definitive evidence." (Holden, J.M. (2011). "Editor's Foreword", Journal of Near-Death Studies. 30 (1), Fall, 2011, pg. 2)...

I'll go and soften the discussion of Sam Harris along the lines that you suggest in the first paragraph. Talking more about Pam Reynolds here (as you suggest in the 2nd paragraph) wouldn't be WP:DUE here, although you could make suggestions to that article at Talk:Pam Reynolds case. The better solution for this article would be to replace the Sam Harris bit with something a little more relevant and differently focused, but I don't know what is right for that at the moment. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 13:27, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request edit on 11 February 2020

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Request new addition to the biography portion of Michael Sabom page. Thank you.

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Sabom was featured in After Death (2023)- a documentary movie on near-death experiences. Whereas Variety's Owen Gleiberman criticized the movie's overall approach, he considered Sabom's contribution to be "the most pivotal" of "all the experts, authors, and researchers interviewed in the film" since he "offers his findings as hard-headed science and even encourages skepticism." [13]

13. Gleiberman, Owen (October 31, 2023). "'After Death' Review: A Faith-Based Documentary Pretends That the Afterlife Is Science". Variety. Archived from the original on November 7, 2023. Retrieved November 7, 2023. 7300Mobas (talk) 18:04, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit "Request new addition to biography portion. "

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Sabom was featured in After Death (2023) - a movie on near-death experiences noted to be the "top faith-based documentary of all time." [14]

14. Movieguide (November 9, 2023). "After Death Achieves Top Faith-Based Documentary of All Time." https://www.movieguide.org/news-articles/after-death-achieves-top-faith-based-documentary-of-all-time.html 7300Mobas (talk) 13:26, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Partly done 7300Mobas, I included a brief mention of After Death. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 14:47, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]