Talk:JD Vance

Comments on killing of Renee Good and immunity of ICE

Will someone please add to this article the information about his comments on ICE agents having “absolute immunity”? This was in my opinion one of the most irresponsible statements ever made by a modern American politician, and definitely warrants mention in this article. Tomabird (talk) 19:48, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

Strangely, I also see no reference to J D Vance, the man who came from MAGA USA to interfere in the election in Hungary - by supporting the authoritarian candidate - complaining of the EU "interfering" in the election in Hungary. CatNip48 (talk) 06:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/apr/07/jd-vance-eu-interference-hungary-election-viktor-orban — Preceding unsigned comment added by CatNip48 (talk • contribs) 06:59, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

@Tomabird and CatNip48: This warrants , it is obvious that you both are acting in bad faith and therefore are not objective.

Examples "to interfere in the election in Hungary", "This was in my opinion one of the most irresponsible statements ever made by a modern American politician"

Alas keep your ideological opinions to yourselves and spare us the fluff, I've had a recent discussion "Talk:List of secret police organizations#Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2026" which explains that ICE has a legal mandate within legal boundaries. Lothengrun de Spigel (talk) 15:02, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

The expression of my opinion in the “Talk” section is entirely appropriate. I was merely expressing the importance of including in the article Vance’s statement, which is information very relevant to the subject at hand, as evidenced by the subsequent further violence committed by ICE and US Border Patrol against people like Alex Pretti and Nurul Amin Shah Alam with complete impunity. These are historical facts, not opinions. Your biases are obvious and should be freely expressed im the “Talk” section, but should not be allowed to dictate which objective information is to be included in the article itself. Tomabird (talk) 13:39, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

@Tomabird: Wikipedia:Casting aspersions The audacity to project is palpable, ICE and USBP don't have "complete impunity immunity" [therefore your entire pretext for making this talk is false], they have a legal mandate and are enforcing it upon transgressors [be they alleged (under investigation) or actual], your personal morality has no place in an objective discussion, these "historical facts" are a subversive tactic to paint VP Vance as being evil and cruel (in the inherent tendency of populists), which is not the case, it is precisely, a biased interpretation of a [seemingly] legally illiterate VP, both you and the VP are an embarrassment. But alas, the most amenable course of action would be to place this statement in a controversy section. Lothengrun de Spigel (talk) 15:22, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

If they don’t have complete impunity, why haven’t they been prosecuted for murder? Tomabird (talk) 22:53, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

@Tomabird: I just noticed the error, what I meant to say is immunity, anyhow, as I understand, they are not prosecuted because a court or an investigation committee has not found their actions to be illegal or a violation of their legal mandate, thus legally they did not exceed their legal boundaries, if a prosecution opens a case and sentences them as committing an illegal act then they would be violating their legal mandate. Are you satisfied with this answer? Lothengrun de Spigel (talk) 23:45, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Well I get what you’re saying, but I think this fits the meaning of “impunity” Tomabird (talk) 08:59, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

@Lothengrun de Spigel: So, are you disputing the facts as reported in the Guardian article referenced? Or do you now simply dismiss unwelcome facts as "bad faith"? CatNip48 (talk) 22:51, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

I'm not disputing a "fact" nor am I dismissing "unwelcome facts" (which in an act of bad faith, is being framed as me denying a moral point that you support, and that the Guardian article seemingly wants to perpetuate, and yet again @CatNip48 you are violating and WP:ASPERSIONS). Now as WP:CONTEXTMATTERS, what I did try to accomplish is to provide much needed neutrality and/or context, that [seemingly] you @CatNip48 and @Tomabird lack nor want to provide in order to fulfill the current popular bias that "VP is evil, ICE doubly evil"; I did explain in relative detail my point of view whilst adhering to WP:NPOV, and there is no reason for me to repeat myself. If you @CatNip48 are incapable (for whatever reason) of comprehending my point, you may use an LLM as tool of explanation. Lothengrun de Spigel (talk) 09:21, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

Also per User talk:CatNip48#Continued edits to Talk:JD Vance, for some odd reason, you seem to be very keen on disregarding Wikipedia's own regulations based on your personal whims and/or bias. How can we expect you to be a neutral editor if you have a history of this kind of tendency which is not conducive to neutrality? Lothengrun de Spigel (talk) 09:55, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

"you @CatNip48 and @Tomabird lack nor want to provide in order to fulfill the current popular bias that "VP is evil, ICE doubly evil" "

So, if falsely attributing your words to another who has not used those words, is not an example of "bad faith", I for one would like to know what is! QED. CatNip48 (talk) 13:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

I'm merely following the logic of your argument, which by the way, resembles a tendency of sophist, alas I urge you to save your pretty words for another discussion which warrants it. This tendency, again makes me question the pretext of this entire conversation, why do you want to paint JD Vance or ICE as being morally evil? If we, as Wikipedia contributors want to remain neutral, then surely elimination of personal bias is a priority right? However, I do not see this in your responses, what I do see is an individual editor (albeit relatively new to the scene), who perhaps is not fully aware of his responsibilities in adhering to WP:NPOV or any other regulation; this is understandable, and I do not blame you for making a mistake, but your continued insistence on picking fights, so much so that you were blocked in the past, does not warrant further explanation from me; for I made my point clear, the law is the law, your personal opinion has no basis in reality nor does your personal morality of a particular action, which currently has not been found to be illegal. When a court decides that ICE had committed a unlawful murder then you would be correct to place the entire context in the article. Currently the only place that warrants a mention, is, yet again, the controversy section; if you are not satisfied with this result, then I urge to reconsider or else I will contact an administrator to place another warning on your page for you would be violating WP:NPOV by placing a passage that it's pretext is filled with bad faith. Lothengrun de Spigel (talk) 15:45, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

Once more you falsely accuse me of commenting on "ICE", something I have said nothing whatsoever about. "ICE" appears to be entirely your own obsession. So much for "bad faith" and "elimination of personal bias". CatNip48 (talk) 00:04, 12 May 2026 (UTC)

Due to the fact they led with "in my opion" they are being reasonable for wikipedia talk section.Statments like "it is obvious you are acting in bad faith" are uncalled for. Addie Quinn (talk) 13:10, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

Image

is that the real image? I have seen so many joke images I don’t think that this is the actual image of Vance. Uhhbnj (talk) 15:58, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

I don't know if you consider https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/jd-vance/ trustworthy on this point or not. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:05, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

Well it's upside down at the moment... ~2026-22196-77 (talk) 04:12, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

Asked for protection on Commons. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:25, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

He has no conclusive links to Coagh, County Tyrone at all

The early life section needs to be edited. The Democratic Unionist Party commissioned a search on alleged links of JD's in Coagh, County Tyrone and came up with no conclusive proof of him having roots there at all. Not only that but the President of the Vance Family Association, Dave Vance, said it had been running a genealogical research project using DNA for a decade and was certain the vice-president had no direct connection to “the John Vance who is popularly assumed by many genealogists to be the sole progenitor of all Irish Vances”.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/more-than-%C2%A35500-in-public-money-spent-on-jd-vance-genealogy-dossier-which-failed-to-prove-ulster-scots-heritage/a/112256456.html

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/gordon-lyons-jd-vance-ulster-dossier-debunked-dna-research-concludes-X5K5BR4MUNHADO5LAG6NY6VU4Y/

https://www.thetimes.com/world/ireland-world/article/jd-vance-scots-irish-family-history-682pjm5j5

https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/jd-vance-irish-heritage-scottish-35284198

https://eogn.com/page-18080/13503136

Beastfromtheeast100 (talk) 00:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

:Without knowing if there's been an earlier discussion on this matter. On this topic, I think there's thorough support for this type of phrasing. Here's my proposal:

Current: "Vance wrote in his book Hillbilly Elegy that he was of Scots-Irish descent,[7][8] and research has traced his family's lineage to the village of Coagh in County Tyrone, Northern Ireland.[9][10]"

Proposed: "Vance wrote in his book Hillbilly Elegy that he was of Scots-Irish descent,[7][8] and research has traced his family's lineage to the village of Coagh in County Tyrone, Northern Ireland,[9][10] though some Irish genealogical researchers dispute Vance's familial ties to Ireland.[11:https://www.thetimes.com/world/ireland-world/article/jd-vance-scots-irish-family-history-682pjm5j5]"

--Engineerchange (talk) 04:23, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

Changed my perspective given further context. Please read below --Engineerchange (talk) 05:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

There was an earlier discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:JD_Vance/Archive_5#Vance's_Scots_Irish_descent . The DUP is an unreliable source; they selectively cite Dave Vance of the Vance Family Association as a source, without mentioning that "Dave Vance told the Times that his research does indicate JD Vance has some Irish blood" https://web.archive.org/web/20250702135203/https://defector.com/is-jd-vance-irish-be-careful-who-you-ask Hi! (talk) 05:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

I have removed the information. The sources that were there made it appear as though the claim had been established, but other researchers have stated that it is not proven, and there are more sources disputing it than supporting it. ItsShandog (talk) 14:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

Discussions from June, early August, late August, and August/September 2025 related to Vance's descent are all in Talk archive 5, along with a separate December comment. —ADavidB 05:29, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

@Oort1: and @Adavidb: thanks for the info. Fair enough, I rescind my proposal. The Scotch-Irish Americans definition of heritage was not clear to me. Appreciate the comments! --Engineerchange (talk) 05:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

He does not have any conclusive roots to Coagh though. You are keeping this in as fact when there has been no proof of it whatsoever. Beastfromtheeast100 (talk) 10:55, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

It's not correct that you are choosing to ignore the work commissioned by the DUP and are taking some local guy's non conclusive research instead as fact. Beastfromtheeast100 (talk) 11:13, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

JD Vance absolutely does not have any heritage in Coagh and it has been debunked numerous times over. I'm sure that JD's team know anyway despite these wikipedia authors attempts to gift him a heritage. Rumpelstiltskin007 (talk) 02:51, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

New official portrait

Hello, in March 2026, the White House released a new official portrait of JD Vance as vice president.[1] I am proposing the image on this article be changed to the new official portrait.

Proposed image

SIGM17 (talk) 01:09, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

I agree, we should change it to this. PublicDomainFan08 (talk) 15:08, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 April 2026

Change "James and Bonnie (nee Blanton) Vance" to "James Lee and Bonnie (nee Blanton) Vance" as to add the middle name to avoid any confusion with his grandfather. Lukereillyy1 (talk) 14:42, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want made. I do not see the full name of Vance's maternal grandfather listed in the existing sources in the article, and I'm unclear on what other grandfather you want him not to be confused with. Day Creature (talk) 17:15, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 April 2026

Please change the portrait of Vance used in the main infobox to the uncropped version CY223 (talk) 22:56, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 April 2026

Correction at 4th paragraph of article; last sentence of paragraph. Change "...opposition to immigration..." to "... opposition to illegal immigration..." He is NOT opposed to legal immigration. Goman1 (talk) 19:53, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want made. See NPR and The Daily Signal, referenced on Political positions of JD Vance, for example Discourses on Livvy (talk · contribs) 22:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

Children in personal life section

Why does JD Vance's children never mentioned according to WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE, WP:NONAME and WP:BLP guidelines? Absolutiva 23:57, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

They are mentioned, even pictured in JD_Vance#Personal_life. If you mean why their names aren't mentioned, WP:BLPNAME discusses this. IMO, there is no reason to include their names at this point. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

The culture in which Vance grew up

current text: "He grew up in an Appalachian American culture, spending summers with relatives in Jackson, Kentucky".

suggested text: "He grew up in the midwestern industrial town culture of his hometown and was influenced by his Appalachian roots, including spending summers with relatives in Jackson, Kentucky." ~2026-25257-38 (talk) 17:34, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

My personal take on this is how do we exactly characterize Vance's upbringing as being of an Appalachian American culture. I feel like the article's voice on this topic is more tied to his bestseller book and his personal perspective on his upbringing than verifiable sources. And, if that's the truth, we should state it relies on Vance's perspective on his upbringing. I've not seen any other modern (read: post 90s) politicians have this type of U.S. regional "cultural" background attributed to their persona. --Engineerchange (talk) 18:25, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 May 2026

In subsection "2022 campaign" of section "U.S. Senate (2023–2025)", the second paragraph has wrong percentages for Josh Mandel (should be 23.9% or 24%, if rounded, not 23%) and Matt Dolan (should be 23.3% or 23% if rounded, not 22%). The correct values are given in the first table in the "Electoral history" section. GSHAPIROY (talk) 01:06, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

 Done Thank you for pointing out the mistake! PhantomVorteX (Talk) 08:56, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 May 2026

Put JD Vance's Inaugural Portrait as VP into the "Vice Presidency" section add it like how I'm adding it below:

Vance's Inaugural Portrait as VP taken in 2025 taken by Daniel Torok

Fixingthelies2025 (talk) 20:29, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

 Not done: As there are already several images in that section, including one of him being sworn in as vice president, plus the more recent official portrait which is used in the infobox. Day Creature (talk) 23:20, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

"Jamesdavidvance" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Jamesdavidvance has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2026 May 19 § Alexandriaocasiocortez until a consensus is reached. 𝔅𝔦𝔰-𝔖𝔢𝔯𝔧𝔢𝔱𝔞? 18:36, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 May 2026

Correction at 4th paragraph of article; last sentence of paragraph. Change "...opposition to immigration..." to "... opposition to illegal immigration..." He is NOT opposed to legal immigration, only to ILLEGAL immigration. This is FALSE information that does not belong in a Wikipedea article. This correction needs to be made. This is my SECOND notice on this problem. Goman1 (talk) 18:42, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

 Not done: And this is the second time you're being told to provide reliable sources that support the change you want made. There are plenty that support the text as it is. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:46, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 04 June 2026

Apologizes in advance if I'm messing anything up here, I don't have a lot of editing experience, but I just saw a minor, and hopefully uncontroversial, error on this page.

The text under his Marine Corps portrait currently says "Vance (then Hamel) became a non-commissioned officer in the U.S. Marine Corps in 2003" I propose that should be changed to "Vance (then Hamel) enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps in 2003, and later became a non-commissioned officer"

Elsewhere the article says he served from 2003 to 2007 and reached the rank of corporal. In the USMC corporal is the first non-commissioned officer (NCO) rank (pay grade E4). It is not possible to enlist directly as a corporal (and therefore an NCO) in the USMC. I cannot find a source that says exactly when he achieved the rank of corporal, but considering that it was his final rank, and it would be extremely unlikely to be promoted to corporal less than a year after enlisting, it seems clear to me this sentence was simply written by someone who didn't know that one does not enlist directly as an NCO, but is promoted to it later. DaleSwanson (talk) 05:26, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for your perceptiveness. If I understand you correctly, this is the change you are asking for:

−

"Vance (then Hamel) became a non-commissioned officer in the U.S. Marine Corps in 2003

+

Vance (then Hamel) enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps in 2003, and later became a non-commissioned officer

Now, you usually need to provide reliable sources when making an edit request, (I am entirely ignorant to what 'USMC' is, as I am a lay) but in this case, I don't think it is such an issue since the article itself clearly states he did not become an NCO at the time, but a private, with what I assume are reliable sources supporting that claim.

What is an issue is that I do not know when the image was taken, so I do not know if the year 2003 should be mentioned in the description. (Again: I know very little about the subject. For all I know, this could be an image of Vance in his uniform after recieving his new rank)

I will remove, for now, the description. Slomo666 (talk) 15:38, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Oh and by the way, I came accross something in Non-commissioned officer#United States: The Marine Corps rank of lance corporal (E-3) is not an NCO, but rather a junior enlisted rank directly below corporal. The rank of corporal (E-4) in the Army and Marine Corps is a junior NCO, and is to be shown the same respect as any other NCO. However the rank of Specialist in the US Army, also with an E-4 pay grade, is not authorized to command troops and as such is not an NCO. which contradicts the equivocation of "pay grade" and the NCO status. Slomo666 (talk) 15:49, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, and yes that is my proposed change. Yes, a Specialist is an E-4 that is not an NCO, but the United States Marine Corps (USMC) does not have the rank of Specialist. All E-4s in the USMC are Corporals, which are all NCOs (at least circa 2003). As for when the picture was taken, I know my own personal knowledge isn't going to count for a lot, but that is pretty clearly the portrait all Marines take towards the end of boot camp, which is when he would have been a private, since the article specifies that he enlisted as a private (which I missed, thanks for pointing that out).

If you image search for "marine corps boot camp dress blues portrait" you can see more examples of these. Even if someone wanted to argue that it could have been an official portrait done while he was a higher rank, those are almost always done in a what is called the "Service Alpha" uniform, which is a green jacket, as opposed to the dark blue "Dress Blues" uniform that portrait is done in. Also it's pretty rare for any lower enlisted ranks (like corporal) to have an official portraits taken at all, aside from the one in boot camp.

I realize all this is not 100% proof that the portrait was taken when he was a private in boot camp, but I feel like it's much more likely to be true than the prior caption which said he was an NCO in it. And it seems to me having the caption is better than not having it. DaleSwanson (talk) 16:57, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Actually I do have one good piece of evidence that he was in boot camp in that portrait. In that uniform, all his ribbons and awards would be worn on the left chest, and visible. The article confirms he received the National Defense Service Medal, which is awarded for enlisting during wartime, and so he would have had if that portrait was taken at any time after boot camp. DaleSwanson (talk) 17:36, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

The image file was uploaded to Wikipedia in July 2004. The file's Summary section gives its date as July 2003. —ADavidB 22:21, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks David.

It was uploaded in 2024, according to the page history. I must have overlooked that image description somehow. I am adding a shortened caption now. Please tell me if there is anything else. Happy editing Slomo666 (talk) 17:09, 5 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for editing Slomo, but you seem to have restored the original caption that says he became an NCO in 2003 rather than the new one that says he enlisted in 2003 and later became an NCO. I'm not sure if that was intentional or a mistake, but with image date David found, I think we can say pretty conclusively that the image is from before he was an NCO. DaleSwanson (talk) 17:57, 5 June 2026 (UTC)

OOPS. Fixed now. My mind must have been somewhere else. Slomo666 (talk) 18:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC)

UK interference

As a natural citizen of the UK I consider the current Vice President of the USA, JD Vance, to be an enemy of my country. I think this is a point well worth making.

Starmer suggests US ‘trying to interfere in our democracy’ over Nowak claims

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/05/keir-starmer-questions-henry-nowak-case-two-tier-policing-claim

I would have thought the US presently has more than enough issues of its own for the Vice President to concern himself with, rather than matters of which he knows nothing and understands less. CatNip48 (talk) 10:50, 6 June 2026 (UTC)

Parents

I have created a wikipedia page for both of Vance's parents which can be displayed in personal details.

Mother - Beverly Vance

Father - Donald Bowman NicholasGian25 (talk) 19:47, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks! NicholasGian25 (talk) 22:22, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

Ethnicity

Why is Kamala Harris's ethnicity detailed, but JD Vance is not. How about Euro-American or SpecificCountry-American? ~2026-35819-29 (talk) 12:15, 19 June 2026 (UTC)

JD Vance#Early life and education: Vance wrote in his book Hillbilly Elegy that he was of Scots-Irish descent.[7][8] He grew up in an Appalachian American culture, spending summers with relatives in Jackson, Kentucky.[9][10][7] – Muboshgu (talk) 15:14, 19 June 2026 (UTC)

The accuracy of Wikipedia and jd Vance’s real name

Jd Vance has been accused of having the middle name ~2026-35932-99 (talk) 06:05, 20 June 2026 (UTC)

See Also section: Urban Appalachians Hillbilly Highway

Hi everyone I tried adding Urban Appalachians and Hillbilly Highway to a new see also section, because Vance (love him or hate him) is a part of that community, and his Grandfather came up along the Hillbilly Highway. I was not sure if it warranted a whole section or not so I created a see also section? Would the group prefer I make a whole section on it? Thanks. (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 16:06, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

I don't see the value in such a connection. It's akin to something like connecting Tim Walz to the Midwest page. His grandparents came on the Hillbilly Highway and he wrote about his forebearers in his book. I'd argue the connection is more aligned to the book's page than the author's page. Currently, the Urban Appalachians see also's Hillbilly Elegy. --Engineerchange (talk) 16:30, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

"It's akin to something like connecting Tim Walz to the Midwest page."

Uhhhh I would agree with you, except Urban Appalachians are ethnic minorities not a demonym like a Mid-Westerner or a New Englander. More broady speaking Appalachians themselves are an ethnic group, Urban Appalachians are a Micro-Ethnicty , within the Macro Framework of Appalachians. Similarly speaking the Affrilachia people are another Micro-Ethnicty (ethnological/ Ethnographical clinical term), some academics use the term Ethnographic group, but this is an Eastern European distinction distinction) under the within the Macro Framework of Appalachians.

A common misconception is that people inherently lose their ethnicity when you move past geographic boundaries. Which is not true. If you look for example at Mexican-Americans for example they can and do get treated poorly by non Mexican-Americans, and on the other hand some mean spirited Mexican Nationals will call them Pochos. So they cannot try for losing on both sides of the divide this is similar in some respects to the Urban Appalachians, some Appalachians currently living in Appalachia do not view as Urban Appalachians are true or "pure" Appalachians. Meanwhile, Urban Appalachians have been historically discriminated against in their urban environment. If interested I highly suggest you read up on the Urban Appalachian Council especially their About Urban Appalachians page

" I'd argue the connection is more aligned to the book's page than the author's page."

I can see how you could honestly come to that conclusion. Not many people know about Urban Appalachians, it would not be fair to assume you have. And to be fair I feel like Vance danced around his own ethnicity, which both Urban Appalachians and regular Appalachians have criticized him for, in fact there are a few books and Magazines that respond to Hillbilly Elegy in the negative for specifically that reason. It does not help that (love him or hate him) he is such a polarizing figure which just muddies the water even more sadly. If I may be frank the elegy at times directly or indirectly makes it seem that Urban Appalachians and regular Appalachians think directly as he does, which is not the case. I mean of course there are some, but not all.

But why I believe you are mistaken is that just as Kamala Harris's Jamaica and India (specifically Tamil) is at least mentioned in both her main page and in her book's page The Truths We Hold. And I think that for Vance his ethnic background should be represented as well, regardless if he represents it well or poorly.

That was a long response I know. Sorry lol, but I want you to know that I think you are doing everything in good faith. (:

By the way your Anthony Crockett (soldier) and Joshua Fry Speed articles look amazing. May I ask is Anthony Crockett in any way related to Davy Crockett? :D Historyguy1138 (talk) 17:49, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I also think I'm doing things in good faith, not sure that needed to be stated. I appreciate your concerns on ethnicity, etc., just not something I've seen done in many articles before, which is my hesitation. Appreciate the feedback on those older articles of mine. However, I did Joshua Fry Speed's father John Speed, actually. And Anthony Crockett has no relation to Davy, as far as I understand, but that can be a user talk page discussion. --Engineerchange (talk) 20:34, 23 June 2026 (UTC)

" I also think I'm doing things in good faith, not sure that needed to be stated." Lol sorry. Some times I wonder if my comments can come off as harsh, flippant, or condescending, and I tend to info dump. That's why I try to follow up with faces indicating intent. I did not want to think I was attempting devalue you as an editor, because you clearly have done indispensable work. (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 20:43, 23 June 2026 (UTC)

"love him or hate him" Our feelings about him are frankly irrelevant to what we can say about Vance's family history. Are there reliable sources making connections between this history and the internal migration waves of the post-World War II era? Dimadick (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

""love him or hate him" " Oh I agree. I am just wondering if people on this page do not want to associate Mr. Vance with Urban Appalachians, due to polarization.

Our feelings about him are frankly irrelevant to what we can say about Vance's family history. Are there reliable sources making connections between this history and the internal migration waves of the post-World War II era?

Besides Hilly Billy Elegy? Yes specifically the book Appalachian Reckoning A Region Responds to Hillbilly Elegy. By West Virginia University Press.

There is a whole chapter called "Will the Real Hillbilly Please Stand Up? Urban Appalachian Migration and Culture Seen through the Lens of Hillbilly Elegy by Roger Guy

https://wvupressonline.com/appalachian-reckoning (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 18:27, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

Also if you want to go more broadly about Urban Appalachians as a whole, then besides that website link I sent on the Apalachin Council I recommend the book The Invisible Minority: Urban Appalachians. (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 20:21, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

So does anyone here object then given my responses to me readding the see also section? If no why please? If not would it be preferable that I work on a small section instead? Thanks. (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2026 (UTC)

I'd consider keeping it here for a few more days to get a consensus. I'd consider adding Urban Appalachians as a see also, if others agree. I'm not sure Hillbilly Highway is as relevant since the article doesn't even reference the connection to that page in its prose. I, personally, still think that one is more appropriate to the Hillbilly Elegy page's see also, which you already added there. --Engineerchange (talk) 20:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough I would be satisfied with just Urban Apalachin if it would mean consensus. (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 20:33, 23 June 2026 (UTC)

Shall we wait a bit longer or would you be satisfied with adding the Urban Apalachin see also section, but no small section in the article and no Hilly Highway? I will wait a bit longer to be fair if you wish. (: Historyguy1138 (talk) 03:10, 27 June 2026 (UTC)