This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Gough Whitlam article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the subject of the article.
This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (centre, colour, realise, program, travelled) and some terms may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Gough Whitlam is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
@Nikkimaria Can I ask on why you insist on using a different formatting for Whitlam's page compared to the rest of the Wikipedia's pages on Australian prime ministers? MOS:BIOFIRSTSENTENCE clearly provides a framework that is practically used for a good score of Wikipedia pages for politicians (e.g. Donald Trump, Justin Trudeau, Jacinda Ardern). You just saying the page is fine as it is not acceptable as a reason. SpyroeBM (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The examples provided by MOS:BIOFIRSTSENTENCE - "François Maurice Adrien Marie Mitterrand (26 October 1916 – 8 January 1996) was President of France from 1981 to 1995", "Cleopatra VII Philopator (69 – August 12, 30 BC), was queen of the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt" - are consistent with the formatting that this article uses. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:12, 12 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Yet if you take the time to look at Mitterand's page, he uses the formatting that I had put in and Cleopatra, alongside other royals use a different formatting (as standard for other royals). Cherry-picking aside, Whitlam was a politician and barrister, that is a matter of fact and all Australian politicians and prime ministers use this formatting. It would be good standard to keep the formatting for all pages the same. Once again I ask you with all due respect, why do you feel you have the right to remove my edit "just because it's fine the way it is". SpyroeBM (talk) 03:56, 12 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
You told me to read BIOFIRSTSENTENCE, and the existing formatting is consistent with what is presented there. It's also a longstanding status quo, dating back to when this article achieved featured status. And with all due respect, you haven't established either a requirement or a consensus for change. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:18, 12 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I also agree. The existing format is fine and represents the long standing status quo. Since every Australian prime minister has been a) a politician and b) Australian (whether or not the legality of an Australian nationality had yet been created), how is the reader getting any more information with the proposed language? Wehwalt (talk) 13:01, 12 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Having nationality and profession(s) in the lede establishes context to the reader regarding Whitlam's activities outside of being a prime minister. Based on MOS:BIOFIRSTSENTENCE, MOS:FIRSTBIO, and MOS:CITIZEN, nationality is more often or not included at the start of the intro for not only politicians, but for a range of people in different professions on Wikipedia (e.g. actors and historians). The 1st-20th prime minister and the 22nd-31st prime minister include the nationality and profession in the lede as they have held different positions in government, why should Whitlam's be different? Also, arguing the status quo "does no harm" is counterproductive to the fact that Wikipedia (with featured articles) can and does change, hence why I am bring this point up. Preferably, a compromise can be reached but if not I'll seek an RFC on this topic. Thanks, SpyroeBM (talk) 15:01, 13 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I fail to see the necessity of stating that an office held only by politicians, and by Australians, was held by one. Since the office has never been held by a non-politician, or a non-Australian (with the caveat re formal nationality above). This is the only article on an Australian PM which is a Featured Article, I don't see your argument of "but the others say something else" as very strong. Probably the same person inserted that language into most, and if it was removed, I don't know if many of them would be reverted. Wehwalt (talk) 15:41, 13 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
.svg){kind=small}
level-5 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=logo}
