Talk:Daisy Bell

Influence of Sarah, Sarah

The Wikimedia Help Desk received an e-mail from a music historian:

I don't know who to send this to, so could you please forward this to whomever should get it.

I am writing about music and I was researching the song "Daisy Bell". Here is the webpage address:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Bell

Anyway, there is a reference towards the bottom of the page concerning a link that displays a London broadside that contains lyrics to a song called "Sarah, Sarah" by Harry Bedford. I mention this because the comment made at the bottom of the Wilipedia article suggests that "Daisy Bell" was inspired by "Sarah, Sarah".

I just wanted to mention that i could find very little on Harry Bedford but there is a CD out with a song by him from the 1920's and that the International Film Database has a movie listing of him. there is nothing in their biography but his birthdate was 1873. This means that he was only 18-19 years old when "Daisy Bell" was a hit. I seriously doubt that he wrote "Sarah, Sarah" before "Daisy Bell" because of his age. Maybe the broadside has a misattributed date or Harry was gifted at humorous lyricism at a very early age.

Thanks . Alan Linquist

He didn't know where to make the comment so I placed it here. Capitalistroadster 03:15, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand what makes this music historian think that a Harry Bedford in the International Film Database must be the same Harry Bedford that composed "Sarah, Sarah". It's not a particularly uncommon name, after all. Qwfp (talk) 12:40, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Dunlop

Daisy Greville also seems to be the mother of the heir of the Earl of Warwick, in 1882. Her husband died three years after Dunlop, in 1924. No solid citation for this remarriage to John Dunlop anywhere, so I'm calling it a hoax, probably based on a subtle pun that she inspired the song "Daisy Bell/Bicycle Built For Two", and Dunlop invented the bicycle (tricycle) tire. Sentence removed. -- Yamara 02:21, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I suspect that there may be a double-entendre in 'Bicycle built for two' because of her possibly reputed adulterous liaisons which allegedly produced her younger children while remaining married to an Earl of Warwick.Cloptonson (talk) 18:58, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

Original research?

Can anyone confirm the following?

• The song is possibly derived from 'Sarah Sarah, or a Donkey Cart Built for two' by Harry Bedford, printed sometime between 1877 and 1884, however the dates are uncertain and the reverse is possible. A broadside copy can be viewed on the Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads site. (Viewable by clicking on the magnifying glass and scrolling down to read it).

This seems like original research... is there any independent confirmation on this from a reliable source? - Tbsdy lives (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) ^talk 11:17, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced material

The following is unsourced information:

• The IBM 704 was not the first computer to play Daisy Bell, as this song was popular on the UNIVAC I. Playback of music was demonstrated in early 1951 on the UNIVAC I at the event celebrating the first operation of the machine.

• "Daisy Bell" is featured in the Commodore 64 demo Broken Limits, which plays out the tune using the Commodore 1541 disk drive mechanics.

• A "Daisy Bell" program called "Daisy" appeared for the Commodore Amiga, which played out the tune using the disk drive mechanics and 'sang' the lyrics using the amiga translator.device

• "Daisy Bell" was also recorded on the single CD "Sunday Sunday" by the English Britpop band Blur in 1993. This version of the song was also memorably performed by the band at the Mile End stadium concert in June 1995 as a duet with Phil Daniels.

• The song was featured in the Futurama episode Love and Rocket in which Bender dates the Planet Express ship and serenades her with the song.

• The third paragraph of the song was hidden as an easter egg in the stylesheet of the Wordpress Default theme. Thus been installed on thousands of servers and blogs, the lyrics are only visible when you edit the stylesheet.

• It was also performed by Captain Hero in an American Idol parody episode of Drawn Together.

• In the 1984 film Revenge of the Nerds we hear a Japanese version of the song.

• A character in the Playstation 2 game S.L.A.I. sings it while fighting.

• It was performed briefly on the pilot of the television show, Wonderfalls

• The HERO Jr. educational robot by Heathkit sings the third verse using the Votrax SC-01A speech synthesizer chip common in the 1980s.

While this is interesting, we can't use it unless you provide a source. Also, none of this is really trivia, as trivia by its definition is "unimportant information" - it therefore shouldn't be in a trivia section but instead the information should be incorporated into the main article. - Tbsdy lives (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) ^talk 12:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

References

HAL reference in lead

This has been removed twice now. This is wrong for two reasons:

1. The lead section is supposed to include a summary of all of the article's key points.
2. This is evidence of wider notability of the subject, and so should be included in the lead to demonstrate the subject's importance.

Given that Rodericksilly previously removed the entire piece from the article, my impression here is that this is due to a disagreement over the importance of the particular example. However, in the present article it's plainly the most notable aspect of the song. I'll be re-adding this unless there's reason to disagree. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 13:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

I agree that it deserves a mention in the lead. Qwfp (talk) 14:00, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

I've now restored this mention. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:27, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Charting?

"The song was originally recorded and released by Dan W. Quinn in 1893, charting at number-one for nine consecutive weeks."

Um... there were no "charts" of popular songs in 1893. Charting is a phenomena that didn't exist before radio, and wasn't really established until 1951. While there may be ways of ascertaining how popular "Daisy Bell" was in a particular part of the world in 1893, that information didn't come from a pop song chart. This linn needs to be changed, removed, or properly referenced.

Unclear purpose

What is the purpose of this article? Is it supposed to be primarily about the 1890's popular song "Daisy Bell", or is it supposed to be about the development of computer voice synthesis?

I ask because, right now, essentially half the article is about computer voice systhesis. While "Daisy Bell" did figure in the history of this technology, that represents just one minor event in the song's 120+ year history.

What is missing from the article is information on the song's internal puns, which contributed to the fact that it became one of the most parodied songs in the English language. I provided information on these aspects of the song, with references, but they were removed. As I have no desire to become involved in an "edit war", I have not restored them.

However, as the article stands now, I propose that it be either expanded to cover the actual song, or deleted. The computer voice synthesis mention is more than adequately covered in the "Speech Synthesis" article, and the rest of this article is really little more than a stub. -- 23:25, 4 November 2014‎ 74.95.43.249

I reinstated the material on parodies. And I think the "In culture and technology" section is still too detailed for an article on the song. Willondon (talk) 01:11, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for reinstating the sourced material on parodies and added something about the puns in the original song (quote marks seem to indicate intended puns in the original lyrics, though some are no longer clear puns to the modern listener, presumably due to changes in slang usage). I think that section was removed as it had grown to include many later, unreliably-sourced parodies? I've further shortened the "In culture and technology" section, as I think you're right that the detail belongs in articles to which it links, such as "HAL 9000". Qwfp (talk) 08:36, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Actually, this song would now be semi-forgotten if not for the 2001 movie etc. AnonMoos (talk) 09:18, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't know about that. Many still remember contemporary songs like "Down by the Old Mill Stream", many of Stephen Foster's hits, "She'll Be Coming 'Round the Mountain", etc. I'm sure the movie has boosted Daisy Bell's longevity, but when I saw the movie on its initial release, I'm sure most of the audience was already familiar with the song. Willondon (talk) 14:32, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

A few 19th century popular songs are remembered, but the vast majority languish in obscurity... AnonMoos (talk) 16:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Well sure, but I thought the issue is whether or not Daisy Bell would have languished in obscurity were it not for 2001. I think it's speculation to assert that it would have, especially given the merits mentioned in the article. Oh well, I guess we'll never know. Willondon (talk) 17:51, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

The song was written just as the bicycle became a practical mode of transportation -- i.e. as the "safety bicycle" was beginning to replace the "penny-farthing" bicycle -- and became lyrically obsolete by about 20 years later, when the automobile began to be widely diffused (in the United States, at least). For the last 75 years or more, it's mainly had camp or kitsch or "Gay Nineties" nostalgia value, and is certainly not one of the few classic popular songs whose appeal and popularity have endured. To see how such obsolete technology fad songs could be viewed only slightly more than 30 years after their initial publication, just listen to the Spike Jones and His City Slickers version of Come Josephine in My Flying Machine... -- AnonMoos (talk) 00:16, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

The Theory of Everything

I've tagged The Theory of Everything theory (Daisy Bell appears in the film due to Hal) as original research. It's uncited, and frankly it seems just as likely that the Theory of Everything featured Daisy Bell due to the song's use in the early days of computer-generated audio. 80.229.60.197 (talk) 07:52, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Films section

This probably needs reworking slightly - does the third entry (the Stephen Hawking film) link to '2001 ...' or 'The Hitcher'? Jackiespeel (talk) 17:39, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Parody

FWIW:

I often as a child heard this teasing parody:

[Name of person],

[Name of Person],

The cops are after you!

If they catch you,

They'll give you a year or two.

They'll tie you up with wire

Behind the Black Mariah*,

So ring your bell,

And peddle like hell,

On your bicycle built for two.

Black Mariah = police van — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:54F1:8A3D:C10C:8D93 (talk) 19:52, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

References in movies

Bigweld also sings the song when Rodney's fixing him in the Blue Sky film, "Robots". Booger-mike (talk) 21:53, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Additionally, The song is used in The Hallways (2025) Narfhead4444, Gamer Ordinare 21:29, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

Daisy Greville, Countess of Warwick

The claim that the "Daisy" in the song "is said" to be reference to Daisy Greville was added to the article when it was first created in 2005. This same edit also claimed that she married John Boyd Dunlop, something since dismissed on this page as a hoax.

This claim has since been cited by a book and a BBC news article, both of which were written after it appeared here.

Is there any source for this that pre-dates 2005? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:59, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

I suspect the Dunlop-Greville legend may have originated with an American unaware of her title by marriage to a member of the English peerage. The USA is a peerage-free country, that does not allow its own citizens to accept Sir from British knighthoods, so I would not be surprised at the apparent title-blindness leading to misunderstanding.Cloptonson (talk) 19:07, 17 August 2025 (UTC)

August 2025

There has been a spate of edits to the "in popular culture" section sourced only to YouTube videos, and these keep being put back even after being removed with an explanation of why they were removed. As I said on my talk page, WP:SONGTRIVIA says its use should be integrated in the article, preferably with some context as described by reliable sources, rather than e.g. "It was in Episode 15 of The Example TV Show". It is a common misunderstanding to add this type of material, as a Wikipedia article about a song is not intended to be an exhaustive list of places where it appears. Simply saying things like "it is on YouTube, it is on Discogs" etc does not establish why it is notable. If this continues it will be seen as disruptive editing. ♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:06, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

Agreed. Simply put, this is an old song that has been recorded and used a great many times. Appearing on a web series, or a YouTube video, is trivial and not notable. Greater notability needs demonstrated, starting with discussion of it in third party reliable sources. And it needs to show that the performance has something to tell the reader about the song. A list of "me too" appearances is pointless and of little interest to anyone. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:20, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

I agree for now, but some have speculated that this song specifically was chosen because it has some meaning in the whole context of the show. We can open this discussion if that is eventually proven to be true. VF15 | SeriouslyBored | VWT (talk) 02:40, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

To be fair, I don't know what the YouTube video in question is, but I would argue that if the video in question is part of a series of YouTube videos that is notable enough to have its own Wikipedia article, and if it is used in the context of the story of the video and/or series as a song sung by a sentient AI, which could be a reference to the 1962 Bell Labs recording, then I would say that it is notable enough to be included on the popular culture list. At least if it were up to me. OrlandoApollosFan69 (talk) 00:26, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

It is part of The Amazing Digital Circus, a notable YouTube series. The character Caine sings it in front of Zooble's door, and he is a sentient AI (he calls the other NPCs "other sentient AIs") The show is even blue linked here. I believe it could be added when the show is finished if it provides significant plot point to the show.Dr. Hyde, muahahaha _{jekyllthefabulous} (speak, or you shall die) 09:09, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

The criteria for inclusion is not how significant the song is to the web series, but how significant the web series is to the song. What does it tell the reader about the song? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 09:37, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

I think it is relevant to the song itself rather than the YouTube series, since this song comes up in popular culture every now and then, such as in 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is what most older Millennials know the song from. This is the reference that Gen Alpha and younger Gen Z-ers will know the song from, thus giving the song an entire new generation of listeners. Shadestar474 ^(talk) 20:59, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

@Shadestar474 If and when there's a source that suggests this, it will definitely be added. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 21:31, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

IDK if this is a "valid source" but according to google trends the search term for Daisy bell from the episode release effectivity shot up by 20 times the average search and some popular search terms including the song mention TADC

https://trends.google.com/explore?q=Daisy%20Bell&date=today%201-y&geo=Worldwide Intense Pretzel (talk) 15:29, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Google search counts and search results cannot be used as sources. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 21:28, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

I want to point out some things on this discussion before I make my final point.

The Amazing Digital Circus (TADC), whilst appearing on YouTube is also seen on Netflix which in any modern day metric makes it more than just a "Web Series" as described by other users here.

To add to this, it is clearly referencing the recording of the song by the the IBM 7090 by specifically mentioning that Cain, an AI in the show, sings this to one of the members of the circus, to which the character when talking about this activity specifically says "Cain's been checking up on my room lately. When I don't answer, he just starts singing 'Daisy Bell' in front of my door. It's creepy". The description of the sinning "It's creepy" is often used to describe the song by the IBM 7090.

But even then if we aren't prepared to add mentions from media this popular is it really worth even including the section to begin with? I personally never knew it was sung in Futurama but knew it was sung in TADC before ever watching the show. Intense Pretzel (talk) 14:47, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

I think it has already been explained here that the criteria for adding a mention here starts with it being mentioned in reliable sources. It has nothing to do with how popular you think the series is. It also relies on the mention actually adding something to the article. The articles is not simply a list of occurances. We also don't rely on editors decoding what a show is referencing. That's what the sources do. What you described may add to the article, demonstrating that the song and its used in 2001 is still referenced in the 2020s. But we need a source, not editors piecing things together. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 21:28, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

TL;DR of this thread (for people unfamiliar with Wikipedia's rules): The appearance of the song in The Amazing Digital Circus episode 6 cannot be added to the article unless such performance is mentioned on secondary sources. 🐲Jothefiredragon🔥talk🧨contributions✨log🐉 23:30, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

what can count as a source Arenghtqru888 (talk) 11:52, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

A reliable source that discusses the use of the song and suggests there is something about the performance that's significant. The question is not how important it is to the web series, it's what does this tell the reader about the song? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 12:51, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

I feel like if we're Holding all of the pop culture refences to the same level of scrutiny then the Futurama episode also needs a better source than pointing towards the DVD's Commentary track. By an extension of this logic, If Gooseworx (TADC's main Creator) had answered a question about The song on her Tumblr asks, would that count as a suitably significant secondary source? I'm just confused as to why TADC is being held to a seemingly higher standard than Futurama, given it Has an arguably more direct allusion to the "original" Hal / IBM reference point as well as a much larger call for it's inclusion in the article. Bobbleth (talk) 21:40, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

Seems to me the difference, aside from the reference, is that the "Futurama" episode contains multiple references to 2001, not just the song.   –Skywatcher68 (talk) 14:09, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

...I don't really see what your point here is. this is the area for uses of / References to the song "Daisy Bell", not to "2001: a space odyssey". I don't think extra references to another piece of media that use the song should be the defining factor as to whether or not it's considered important enough to be mentioned. Not to mention That The song's Use in TADC is clearly also a direct reference to 2001, With The song used to Draw parallels between Caine and Hal 9000 both being rogue AI programs.

Besides, I think the current issue with TADC's inclusion is that there is not a sufficient secondary source mentioning the song's use in the show, where my argument was that Futurama also has a weak source justifying it's inclusion.*

^{*(and I think that maybe some people are discounting it from being included because of its poor reputation as a "Web series", especially compared to Futurama)} Bobbleth (talk) 15:51, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

TADC 6

Jax and Pomni singing a song 2603:7000:C700:D0A:D5A:3E9C:624C:6639 (talk) 20:49, 30 August 2025 (UTC)

see above. Unfortunately we cannot add it yet VF15 | SeriouslyBored | VWT (talk) 16:18, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

why can't we add it yet Arenghtqru888 (talk) 20:35, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

oh my god bruh "Ser" SeriouslyBored | VWT (talk) 04:44, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

It’s a reasonable question; the reason we can’t add it yet is because websites (and/or other news outlets) that Wikipedia trusts haven’t talked about the song being in The Amazing Digital Circus yet. If and when they do, we may add it to the article. Cheers, 𝔰𝔥𝔞𝔡𝔢𝔰𝔱𝔞𝔯 ^{(𝔱𝔞𝔩𝔨)} -⃝⃤ (they/he) 00:04, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

but episode 6 came out so long ago Arenghtqru888 (talk) 20:56, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

Which is why it’s seeming likely that no one plans to report on it anytime soon, so we can’t put it in the article. Who knows if they’ll ever even report on it? It might just be permanently not in the article, and if that’s the case, there isn’t really anything we can do about it. Sorry :( Cheers, 𝔰𝔥𝔞𝔡𝔢𝔰𝔱𝔞𝔯 ^{(𝔱𝔞𝔩𝔨)} -⃝⃤ (they/he) 22:40, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

but it's a major use of the song,some odd people only know Daisy Bell from TADC Arenghtqru888 (talk) 15:02, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

If a person had never heard the song "Daisy Bell" before it was in The Amazing Digital Circus on YouTube, then they must have led a very sheltered life.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:13, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

yeah,you're right Arenghtqru888 (talk) 15:24, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

I agree it is a notable use, but that's much more of just an opinion. Sources would be needed to back that up, source that do not presently exist, to my knowledge. NewYears2026 (talk) 06:40, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

...Bro how is there gonna be a citation, the only reference is the Youtube video Arenghtqru888 (talk) 19:56, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

precisely. There isn't because there ARE NO EXTERNAL SOURCES REPORTING ON IT. "Ser" SeriouslyBored | VWT (talk) 00:03, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

One source I found mentions it:

Situation Gets Tense! Review of the Sixth Episode of Amazing Digital Circus

The interesting features of the episode do not end there! In the comments under the video, viewers noted that the song "Daisy Bell" sung by Caine has a historical background - it was the first song that a computer "sang" in 1961 using speech synthesis. A subtle reference to the essence of Caine.

Whether or not the source itself warrants inclusion in the article is up to debate I suppose. Axolitl (talk | contribs) 07:48, 23 June 2026 (UTC)

yey Arenghtqru888 (talk) 11:44, 23 June 2026 (UTC)

Image issues

Is this a non-RGB JPEG in the infobox? I cannot view it in my mobile browser. Viriditas (talk) 00:59, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

It is displaying ok on my smartphone screenshot.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:47, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

It's working now. I couldn't view it earlier today when I made that comment. Server maintenance, changes, or something else? Viriditas (talk) 08:26, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

Amazing Digital Circus

In episode 6 of the show The Amazing Digital Circus, the characters Pomni and Jax sing the song Daisy Bell in front of Zooble's room

Should we add that Arenghtqru888 (talk) 19:32, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

See the thread August 2025 above.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 20:12, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Also see MOS:POPCULT, which states The mere appearance of the subject in a film, song, video game, television show, or the like is insufficient; more generally, if sourcing for a given cultural reference is such that a given article would be able to do little more than briefly mention it, then it doesn't merit inclusion in that article at all. A brief appearance in a web series is not sufficient to be listed.   –Skywatcher68 (talk) 13:51, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

True. The scene where Dave disconnects HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey is an absolutely key part of the film. Since the TADC episode has been mentioned so many times that I've lost count, I watched it on YouTube. It can't be described as integral to the plot, and if it was left out, the plot would not be losing anything.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:31, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

The significance of the article subject to the mentioned reference is not relevant. What counts is the reverse; the significance of the reference to the subject, and that significance is verifiable on reliable sources. It's use on 2001 had a cultural impact and many sources reference that. The significance of it to the film's plot doesn't matter.

This is why ADC hasn't yet merited a mention. Firstly because; so what? What does the song's use there tell us about the song? Secondly because; says who? Has any reliable source discussed this significance? There may be an argument to suggest that the song's use indicates a continuing cultural significance to it. But no source has chosen to state that. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:18, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

agree Arenghtqru888 (talk) 10:32, 18 June 2026 (UTC)