Talk:Anthony Fantano

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Anthony Fantano article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the subject of the article.

Add new text under old text.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Start a new topic

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 12 months

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.

United States Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Internet culture Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of internet culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Internet cultureWikipedia:WikiProject Internet cultureTemplate:WikiProject Internet cultureInternet culture

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Internet culture To-do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : View all requested internet culture articles
Expand : Pick an article from here or here
Photo : Category:Internet culture articles needing images
Stubs : All stubs are located here
Other : Category:Internet self-classification codes (!?); Try to get YouTube to FA; Tag all articles you find with {{WikiProject Internet culture}}
- See also Category:Internet culture articles needing attention

YouTube Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject YouTube, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of YouTube and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.YouTubeWikipedia:WikiProject YouTubeTemplate:WikiProject YouTubeYouTube

Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject YouTube To-do:

A list of articles needing cleanup associated with this project is available. See also the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects.

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : see list.
Assess : Apply the assessment scale on Unknown-importance YouTube articles + Unassessed YouTube articles
Cleanup : See cleanup listing
Maintain : This WikiProject
Stubs : Category:Stub-Class YouTube articles
Other :
- Substitute {{WikiProject YouTube/Invite Members}} on user talk pages
- Check out edit requests on Talk:List of YouTubers

Veganism and Vegetarianism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Veganism and Vegetarianism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of veganism and vegetarianism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Veganism and VegetarianismWikipedia:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismTemplate:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismVeganism and Vegetarianism
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (center, color, defense, realize, traveled) and some terms may be different or absent from (including people) other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

The following are reference ideas for Anthony Fantano. Click [show] for details.

The following reference(s) may be useful when improving this article in the future:

"Needle Drop shows cancelled after controversy". BrooklynVegan.
"Love Him Or Loathe Him, Anthony Fantano Shaped Music Criticism In The 2010s". Junkee.
"How Anthony Fantano Became 'The Internet's Busiest Music Nerd' on YouTube". TheWrap Pro.
"YouTube star under fire for lesser-known channel with 'alt-right' ties". The Daily Dot.
"YouTube is playing favorites, and it all comes down to advertisers". Polygon.
"The swift and plaguing rise of YouTube film critique". The Michigan Daily.
"Getting To The Point: Anthony Fantano's Favourite Albums". The Quietus.
"Anthony Fantano: The Internet's Busiest Music Nerd". 1A.

Adding category for Not Good albums

Would it be best to add a third list containing albums Fantano rated "Not Good" on release? I personally believe that it would be, considering how unique the rating is. CY223 (talk) 02:36, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there are third-party sources discussing his Not Good reviews, no, it probably should not be added. Alyo (chat·edits) 05:54, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I should point out that there aren't any third-party references for his Brat, X or Genre: Sadboy reviews, however I do feel that a Not Good list would need most of its reviews to have a third-party reference. Also, how come they need third-party references when citing from just theneedledrop's website would work just as well? CY223 (talk) 07:38, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@CY223: & @Alyo: here's a third-party reference to a 'Not Good' review for Drake’s album “Honestly, Nevermind” from Variety - https://variety.com/2022/music/news/drake-anthony-fantano-beef-feud-explained-1235374908/ --Paulisdead (talk) 04:21, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That would work incredibly well, hopefully in the future enough third-party references for his 'Not Good' ratings will be found for it to be added as a third category CY223 (talk) 04:30, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To me, that is a passing mention with no discussion of that category of reviews as separately worthy of discussion/inclusion. Alyo (chat·edits) 21:42, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Referendum on validity as source

I keep seeing his reviews cited in Wikipedia "critical reception" sections for many music articles, but is he not a self-published source with no editorial oversight and thus is not notable enough to be a music critic source for Wikipedia? When did this consensus change?

I keep seeing his reviews (cited with only a YouTube video) in many hip hop related articles. I remove them for this issue but then the content is reverted/readded back. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 11:08, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@PHShanghai: see WP:NEEDLEDROP, which shows a note on the current consensus and links to discussions it is based on. Shapeyness (talk) 11:48, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Most music fans have accepted that in 2025, Fantano is not just a hobbyist with a YouTube channel and has been considered a respect professional music critic for a number of years. In this archived discussion from Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums/Archive_72#RfC:_The_Needle_Drop...again._Reliable_source_status

The case to approve The Needle Drop as a Reliable source for music reviews and music review scores

The main argument against making The Needle Drop a reliable source for music reviews are:

Anthony Fantano is a YouTuber
The Needle Drop is "self-published"
The Needle Drop lacks "editorial oversight"

I have addressed these points in the Project Albums talk page and will give a brief rebuttal of each point.

Anthony Fantano is a YouTuber

This is no longer a disqualifier for a reliable source. As of 2020, YouTube is a now excepted as a platform and not a publisher.

The Needle Drop is "self-published"

Under Wikipedia's current guidelines for Wikipedia:Verifiability, there are provisions for a "self-published" source.

"Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications.".

Under those guidelines, Anthony Fantano meets the criteria as reliable, how can we prove this? As an "established subject-matter expert", Fantano has been published in The Washington Post^[1] and has been reported on for his work as a music critic in various mainstream outlets ^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]. Fantano also hosted The Needle Drop as a radio program on the NPR Network form 2007 until 2014. He's opinions on albums and music have also been cited in mainstream publications. And finally, he makes his living as a professional music critic. The Needle Drop is a media company that produces The Needle Drop videos with its Managing Editor and Editor Austen and other employees.

References

The Needle Drop lacks "editorial oversight"

As mentioned, Fantano does have an editor working at The Needle Drop and Fantano worked with editorial oversight from NPR's Public Editor for the radio program edition of the show. So, yes, The Needle Drop has "editorial oversight".

My argument with using "editorial oversight" as a disqualifier is that it is irrelevant when it comes to music reviews. Music reviews are opinion pieces and not claims of fact or news. Opinion pieces aren't subject to editorial oversight like an article is. This is why you see "Opinion" or "Editorial" written under the heading. It's a disclaimer that this is not a statement of fact but the opinion of the writer. If anything, an editor telling a critic to alter their opinion would be against the integrity of that critic. We trust the weight of these critical opinions because we trust the expertise of the writer. There are two-ways this can be done - the reviews are published in a reliable source, or the critic has an established reputation in his field.

And Wikipedia acknowledges this with music reviews under Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources.

This comes back to Fantano qualifying as an established subject-matter expert. It's accepted that any music/film/art review is the opinion of the writer. The current music industry has cited Fanantos reviews as being influential on sales, trusted and reliable news sources have cited him as a professional music critic - if you didn't know who Anthony Fantano was, a quick Google search with him being cited by Wikipedia approved Reliable sources would tell you that he is an expert in his field.

Summary

Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Album_article_style_advice#Critical_reception states:

Make sure that reviews come from reliable sources. As a rule of thumb, professional reviews may include only reviews written by professional journalists or DJs, or that are found within any online or print publication having a paid or volunteer editorial and writing staff. Personal blogs are not reliable unless the author is a previously established expert in the field, and even then they can never be used to make any statements about living people other than themselves (see WP:BLPSPS for more information).

Anthony Fantano qualifies under the Wikipedia communities' own guidelines on what an "established subject-matter expert". The Needle Drop should be regarded as a reliable source for reviews and opinion pieces in the context of music reviews and should be included in the list of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Sources#Generally_reliable_sources that can be used in review boxes and cited in "Critical Reception".--Paulisdead (talk) 04:10, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to start a consensus building discussion regarding this if you have a strong opinion on it; for what its worth, I think your third point about not needing editorial oversight for music reviews may be a little disingenuous and is definitely open to critique, as Wikipedia prioritizies high quality professional sources. What kind of editor is Fantano talking about when he publishes YouTube reviews? Video editors? Copyeditors? For what it stands, Fantano is still a self-published source and there isn't a strong consensus for him being a subject-matter expert on music vs a YouTuber who just reviews new music. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 10:40, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @Paulisdead and @PHShanghai, this is the wrong place for this discussion. This talk page is for discussion of Fantano's article itself, not the use of Fantano as a source on WP. If you want to do that, please start a discussion at WP:WPMUSIC or WP:RSN. For what it's worth, Fantano has been discussed many times at the sourcing noticeboard, and I think you are extremely unlikely to change consensus about use of TND as a RS. Alyo (chat·edits) 21:47, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mononym

Would you say Fantano is well known enough to warrant a change from:

[Anthony Nicholas Fantano (/fænˈtænoʊ/ fan-TAN-oh; born October 28, 1985) is an American music critic ...]

[Anthony Nicholas Fantano (/fænˈtænoʊ/ fan-TAN-oh; born October 28, 1985), also known mononomously as Fantano, is an American music critic ...]

I see people refer to him as simply Fantano quite often and personally think that it should be mentioned considering it is on articles like Pharrell Williams. Just curious what the general consensus is as to including info like this on Wikipedia in general and on this article specifically. Cheers! Nex^📬 🌐 📰 03:40, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is he referred to that way by reliable sources? I often see people use that in the sense that it is his last name, but that use occurs after his full name is already given. I'm not sure I've seen many sources exclusively refer to him as Fantano. Alyo (chat·edits) 16:36, 30 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/10/musicians-nfts-bored-ape-stop-luring-fans-into-scams/

[2] ttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/arts/music/anthony-fantano-the-needle-drop.html

[3] ttps://www.stereogum.com/2277321/falling-in-reverse-frontman-ronnie-radke-sues-anthony-fantano-for-defamation/news/

[4] ttps://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/can-t-take-him-serious-fans-express-disappointment-as-fantano-places-kanye-west-at-7-on-list-of-top-10-rap-discographies/ar-AA1BUCUG?apiversion=v2&noservercache=1&domshim=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1&batchservertelemetry=1&noservertelemetry=1

[5] ttps://www.spin.com/2016/11/anthony-fantano-the-needle-drop-profile-interview/

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]