Talk:Toronto subway

Line 5 & 6 openings

In a mod, User:Cyrobyte gave a rather pessimistic opening date of "after 2025" for lines 5 and 6. Also deleted in the mod was the text "Don't change to 2025 until there is either an official source or until 2024 is over". Even Jamaal Myers admits that his estimate is not an official Metrolinx date. The deleted statement is inconsistant to those in Line 5 Eglinton and Line 6 Finch West which say "For the central section, the "planned opening" is for the official Metrolinx opening date when it is announced." and "This is for the --planned-- opening not for a speculative date; please don't add Brian Lilley's speculative date unless Metrolinx officially announces a new specified date" respectively. All 3 articles now show a different "planned opening". Are User:Joeyconnick and User:Johnny Au giving up on using TBA instead of 2025? TheTrolleyPole (talk) 20:32, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I am very certain of the 2025 opening. However, I would like to wait for Joeyconnick's response. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I have changed the text to "2025 or later"; that is what I meant to say at first. I think that saying 2025 or later is the most appropraite thing to do. Myres said that June 1, 2025 is the "earliest possible date" for Line 5. I think that it is extremely unlikely that it will open this year given that statement, but it also may open later. Cyrobyte (talk) 00:53, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

No, the most appropriate thing to do (at least for Line 5—I haven't looked into Line 6) is TBA because 2025 has not been announced by a reliable source. Not sure how there's any debate on this. "2025 or later" is not a date. If we aren't sure, then we don't guess. —Joeyconnick (talk) 05:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough for now. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 17:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

TBA is applicable to Line 6. The TTC Service Summary for November 17, 2024 to January 4, 2025 makes no mention of operating lines 5 & 6. Jamaal Myers says that both would start operating no earlier than June 1. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 18:47, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:41, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

TBA is applicable to Line 5 as the current source says "no earlier than X" but that is clearly not an actual opening date, just a statement that it won't open on certain dates. As such, I've changed it back to TBA. —Joeyconnick (talk) 06:45, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification and the change to the opening date. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 16:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

It's now 2025 and the tentative dates are still no earlier than June 1 of this year. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 03:24, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Acton GO Station § Requested move 27 March 2025

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Acton GO Station § Requested move 27 March 2025. Joeyconnick (talk) 20:59, 27 March 2025 (UTC) —Joeyconnick (talk) 20:59, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Rename to Toronto subway and light rail

Since the opening of line 6, and soon line 5, TTC and GO Transit have opted to refer to the rapid transit system (i.e., lines 1, 2, 4, and 6) as "Subway and light rail." I believe a name change to the title and replacing certain instances where "subway" is used to refer to the entire system may be appropriate. See TTC, Eglinton and Finch LRTs added to TTC subway maps, and GO Transit System Map. Atynadia (talk) 17:56, 10 December 2025 (UTC)

I think this idea is worth exploring further. BLAIXX 03:23, 11 December 2025 (UTC)

There are secondary sources calling the system this? Turini2 (talk) 15:32, 11 December 2025 (UTC)

I haven't seen much. Although the use of "subway and light rail" has become consistent on all new maps, the system is still often referred to as "the subway" in secondary sources. For example, the article I referred to (Eglinton and Finch LRTs added to TTC subway maps) still referred to the new maps as "subway maps." I assume this is because the only LRT in Toronto opened just a week ago, and the line only serves communities in northern Etobicoke and northwestern North York. Atynadia (talk) 16:51, 11 December 2025 (UTC)

STRONGEST oppose – It's called the Toronto subway. That's its common name. Any change of name would be massively premature. —Joeyconnick (talk) 21:48, 11 December 2025 (UTC)

I see your point, the title change is indeed premature, I do think certain instances in the article need to be changed. For example, the sentence "Toronto subway lines are known by both a number and a name." under Lines could be changed to "Toronto subway and light rail lines are known by both a number and a name." instead. Atynadia (talk) 23:38, 11 December 2025 (UTC)

Strong oppose it's called the Toronto subway, the official website calls it a subway, the signs call it a subway, and everybody calls it the subway. Nobody calls it "The Toronto subway and light rail". That would be in gross violation of WP:OR. Mattximus (talk) 02:07, 12 December 2025 (UTC)

For what it's worth, it seems like sources are intentionally avoiding saying that Line 6 is part of the "Toronto subway" system. Also, where on the official website does it still say "subway"? Everywhere I look (homepage, maps, etc) has been updated to "Subway and light rail". BLAIXX 05:49, 12 December 2025 (UTC)

The signs call it Subway and Light Rail, @Mattximus. How is that a violation of OR in any way, let alone gross. Look at https://www.ttc.ca/ - scroll down - under Current Services it says "Subway and Light Rail". On the https://www.ttc.ca/routes-and-schedules page - first thing it says is "Subway and light rail lines", listing lines 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. And then there's the current "Subway, Light Rail and Streetcar map" - https://cdn.ttc.ca/-/media/Project/TTC/DevProto/Images/Home/Routes-and-Schedules/Landing-page-pdfs/TTC_SubwayStreetcarLightrailMap.pdf. What signs are you referring to? Nfitz (talk) 04:08, 10 February 2026 (UTC)

I should have quoted WP:COMMONNAME as nobody in the city calls it the "Toronto subway and light rail". It's called the subway, even if it's line 5. Even the screens in each station considers the lines all part of the subway system. Mattximus (talk) 16:05, 10 February 2026 (UTC)

Who is calling it a subway @Mattximus? The only common name I've heard publicly, or even in the local media, is LRT. Unlike the SRT, I don't see usage of the word subway. Nfitz (talk) 18:13, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

In my staff room today at work, the first guy to enter said "I tried the new subway today". That's the common name. The main point is, nobody calls it "The Toronto subway and LRT". See above for others saying the same thing. Mattximus (talk) 02:43, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

Okay @Mattximus, I'll give you Line 5. But what about Line 6? Nfitz (talk) 22:34, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

I acknowledge that my lived experience (e.g., I'm too young to remember the time before line 5 began construction or the renaming of the Yonge subway to Line 1) has led me to hold a misguided notion earlier. As mentioned in my earlier reply, a name change for the article itself is premature. However, I firmly believe that many instances in the article where "subway" is used to refer to the whole system need clarification. A common misconception I have seen in public discourse before the new map updates is that people find it confusing that the lines 5 and 6 would be "subway lines" on the latest maps, since the maps were called "subway maps," even though Line 3 Scarborough was not underground. TTC and GO Transit have addressed this issue with proper renaming. For instance, the new signage in Kennedy GO Station lists Line 2 and Line 5 separately as "subway" and "light rail").

Kennedy GO New Lines 2 and 5 Signage

To further explain my point, I will refer to a couple of other similar articles.

1) MBTA subway: Similar to the Toronto subway, the Boston rapid transit system operates under a transit authority that manages other public transit modes. In this article, the varying transit modes within this "subway," such as light rail and BRT, are clearly stated.

2) Tokyo subway: Tokyo subway consists of two metro systems that are collectively called "chikatetsu" (地下鉄, lit. underground rail) in Japanese and "subway" in English; Tokyo subway is a colloquial name. For example, the Japanese Wikipedia page's title is "tōkyō no chikatetsu" (東京の地下鉄, lit. The underground rail of Tokyo), unlike London underground's title, rondon chikatetsu (ロンドン地下鉄, lit. London underground rail), which is the official name of the system. In this article, the lines are organized by their operators.

Therefore, I propose the following changes that adhere to both WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OR. This list is not exhaustive.

1) The article title should be kept the same.

2) Instead of "The Toronto subway is an urban rail transit system serving Toronto and the neighbouring city of Vaughan in Ontario, Canada, operated by the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC)," it could be modified as "The Toronto subway and light rail, colloquially refer to as the subway, is an urban rail transit system serving Toronto and the neighbouring city of Vaughan in Ontario, Canada, operated by the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC)."

3) The first line of Lines could be changed to "Toronto subway and light rail lines are known by both a number and a name." Atynadia (talk) 14:04, 12 December 2025 (UTC)

Oppose: I have not seen any secondary sources that refer to the system as Toronto subway and light rail, and I have not seen any evidence that Torontonians/others are using terms other than subway generally – after all, Wikipedia "generally prefers the name that is most commonly used". It is too soon to change this article. Turini2 (talk) 14:11, 12 December 2025 (UTC)

We should not move the page but I think the official name should at least be mentioned somewhere in the article. BLAIXX 15:22, 12 December 2025 (UTC)

Yes, while there are no secondary sources that refer to the system as Toronto subway and light rail, there is, in fact, evidence that people have used terms other than 'subway' when referring to the new lines, at least in news outlets.

With a quick Google search, you can find articles that explicitly use "light rail" or "LRT," sometimes alongside "subway":

Toronto opens Finch West light rail line

Could you outrun the train? Finch LRT takes 55 minutes to cover 10.3-km route

Line 5 Eglinton Crosstown tests reveal it runs 20 minutes slower than expected, and riders are already fed up

What’s coming after Finch West? A look at Toronto’s next wave of subway and LRT projects

For WP:COMMONNAME purposes, "LRT" could also be used when suitable. Atynadia (talk) 19:19, 12 December 2025 (UTC)

Compromise: Here are the changes I propose: Except the system's name (which istself is a common name instead of an official one), instances where the word "subway" is used to describle items that also include light rail should be changed, since quite a few new sources have avoid using "subway" to generalize the system (e.g., "No TTC service between Osgoode and College due to injury on the tracks," "Portion of TTC Line 1 and 2 to close this weekend," and "Toronto has opened its first new TTC line in over a decade. Here’s the status of every other major transit project in the city").

For example,

Toronto subway#Lead section: "The subway system is a rail network consisting of four rapid transit lines: three subway lines that operate predominantly underground and one light rail line that primarily runs at-grade." → "The rapid transit system is a rail network consisting of four lines: three subway lines that operate predominantly underground and one light rail line that primarily runs at-grade."

Toronto subway#Lines: "Toronto subway lines are known by both a number and a name." → "Toronto subway and light rail lines are known by both a number and a name."

Toronto subway#Lines: "It was the first light rail line to enter service as part of the subway system; construction began in 2019, and the line opened on December 7, 2025." → "It was the first light rail line to enter service as part of the rapid transit system; construction began in 2019, and the line opened on December 7, 2025."

Toronto subway#Operations and procedures: "On weekdays and Saturdays, subway service runs from approximately 6:00 am to 1:30 am; Sunday service begins at 8:00 am." → Include info of the service frequency of Line 6.

Toronto subway#Operations and procedures: "All subway trains use an automated system to announce each station..." → "All Toronto subway and light rail trains use an automated system to announce each station..."

Toronto subway#Operations and procedures: "In addition, the TTC's Toronto Rocket subway trains provide visible and audible automatic stop announcements." → "In addition, the TTC's Toronto Rocket subway trains and all light rail trains provide visible and audible automatic stop announcements."

Toronto subway#Stations: "All regular TTC bus and streetcar routes permit free transfers both to and from connecting subway lines." → "All regular TTC bus and streetcar routes permit free transfers both to and from connecting TTC rail lines." Atynadia (talk) 16:24, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

Agree: We should distinguish subway/rapid transit lines from light rail wherever possible, but the system's name shouldn't be changed. This would be similar to the MBTA subway article, for example. Also, we should try to be consistent with the terminology:

Rapid transit: Refers to heavy rail/subway lines (Lines 1, 2, and 4). Light metro is often seen as a subtype of rapid transit, so we can safely consider the Ontario line as a rapid transit/subway line as well.

Light rail: Refers to LRT's (Lines 5 and 6), and isn't considered as rapid transit. TheInfoIcon (talk) 17:01, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

The current state of Lines 6 hardly fits the definition of rapid transit. However, multiple sources (TTC, Metrolinx, and Reddit) often refer to Line 6 as a rapid transit line, with some noting that it failed to meet people's expectations of what rapid transit should be. Therefore, grouping all lines as rapid transit, with some as subways (i.e., heavy rail) and others as light rail, could be more suitable.

Sources:

Now Open: Line 6 Finch West

Rapid Transit

My experience with Line 6 Atynadia (talk) 19:04, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

Very much DISAGREE we should be making huge distinctions between subway/light metro/LRT... Wikipedia is a generalist website and over-focusing on these distinctions without a difference (to general readers) is not appropriate. A general reader does not know and more importantly does not care about the technological differences between heavy rail and light rail.

Wikipedia is not a railfan website or a specialist transit/transport website and that's not who we're writing these articles for. When we start going out of our way, as per the general thrust of the suggestions above by Atynadia, to make distinctions about rapid transit subtypes, that is too much info of the wrong nature for our audience.

Unless we are discussing some tangible distinct difference between, say, Line 1 and Line 6 (if we are talking about the physical differences of the tracks or vehicles), then we should not be highlighting that Line 1 is "subway" (or "heavy rail") and Line 6 is "light rail" every chance we get. In nearly all cases, we should be saying "All Toronto subway lines" since that, i.e. "Toronto subway", is the name of the system and they are all lines numbered in the same series. "Rapid transit" or "rapid transit lines" is a convenient catch-all in cases where we are perhaps diving a bit into the subtypes but honestly we could just say, especially in articles that aren't on the specific lines themselves, "The Toronto subway consists of 4 rapid transit lines: Lines 1, 2, 4, and 6" and just leave it at that.

In terms of listing frequency and opening hours, even that is in veering into inappropriate territory, as we are not a guide. It's certainly inappropriate to include that info just to make distinctions between rapid transit subtypes.

So for instance:

• The rapid transit system is a rail network consisting of four lines: three heavy rail lines that operate predominantly underground and one light rail line that primarily runs at-grade. (saying "subway lines" whent he system is named "Toronto subway" is confusing to general readers, so here making a distinction and including the heavy rail label is more appropriate)

although again, we could just say:

• The rapid transit system is a rail network consisting of four lines: three lines that operate predominantly underground and one line that primarily runs at-grade.
• Toronto subway lines are known by both a number and a name. (making the distinction here is inappropriate because they are the lines of the Toronto subway, so "Toronto subway lines" is the right way to describe them)
• It was the first light rail line to enter service as part of the Toronto subway; construction began in 2019, and the line opened on December 7, 2025. (again, the name of the system is actually "Toronto subway", so here using the full name avoids the slight weirdness of saying a light rail line was added to the [generic] subway, although even here there is probably a way to reword this)
• On weekdays and Saturdays, subway service runs from approximately 6:00 am to 1:30 am; Sunday service begins at 8:00 am. (here if we need to talk about service levels, we can just split it up to service level by line; there is absolutely no need to say "heavy rail service does this; light rail service does that")
• All Toronto subway trains use an automated system to announce each station...

or

• Automated announcements are used on all the system's trains to indicate each station... (and if there are differences between the lines, we can just say "Automated announcements are used on Line 1, 2, and 4 trains to indicate each station [... and aren't used/don't do this thing that is done on Line 6 trains]"
• In addition, the TTC's Toronto Rocket trains and the Line 5 and 6 trains provide visible and audible automatic stop announcements.
• All regular TTC bus and streetcar routes permit free transfers both to and from connecting Toronto subway lines.

or

• All regular TTC bus and streetcar routes permit free transfers both to and from connecting Toronto subway rapid transit lines (here "rapid transit" is a useful catch-all that isn't drilling down to the subtypes unnecessarily)

And if people are claiming "rapid transit" somehow doesn't include light rail, which seems very odd to me but I guess that might represent the weird hatred of light rail that seem common in the US and Canada, but if the distinction starts getting made in sources for some reason, then we can use "urban rail". But the point is, wherever possible, we should be treating the new lines the same as the old lines when talking about them as part of the same system, which—again—is called the Toronto subway.

(thank you for attending my TED talk 😉) —Joeyconnick (talk) 19:10, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

I agree that making such distinctions every time the lines are mentioned is too pedantic. However, I think we should specify the difference where appropriate, while at the same time referring to the system itself as the "Toronto subway". So generally, I would agree with your examples.

As an aside, it might be a bit misleading to have a link to Rapid transit associated with an LRT line, given that the Rapid transit article is clearly not describing LRT (not trying to hate on LRT's, but "rapid transit" and "light rail" are technically different, and the distinction is made in other cities' subway/metro system articles as linked previously). TheInfoIcon (talk) 19:58, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

I have published the edits based on your suggestions, along with some much-needed edits on outdated topics. The new edits do not make huge distinctions, only those that are needed. While a general reader does not know the TECHNOLOGICAL differences between heavy rail and light rail, which were not discussed in this article, they do distinguish what a "subway" and an "LRT" are supposed to look like. The edits I made didn't highlight that Line 1 is "subway" and Line 6 is "light rail" every chance I get (in fact, the former Line 3 was highlighted as light metro in most instances, even though a general reader in Toronto would probably call it an RT). In terms of listing frequency and opening hours, these are existing sections of the article that I have just removed. Also, I agree that rapid transit includes light rail, because that's how both primary and secondary sources refer to all the lines. Atynadia (talk) 21:53, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

sigh

Subways and LRTs look the same to people who aren't into transit. They are trains on rails. Some general readers might even assume the streetcars are the same, since some of them have dedicated rights-of-way, too, and they are trains on rails as far a non-specialist can tell. —Joeyconnick (talk) 04:55, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

I've heard regular folk in the subway refer to line 6 as a subway line. They are branded the same so to most people it's part of the subway system, even if it's got light rail technology. Mattximus (talk) 01:12, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

Replying to this even though no I don't think there are any further edits regarding this topic that should be made by now (besides updates on technical details which need more sources to back up). While Wikipedia is for general readers, virtually all primary sources (e.g., TTC) and secondary sources (e.g., CBC) avoid the conflation of two, which is why I suggest the edits in the first place: to differentiate lines of the Toronto subway vs Toronto subway lines. Atynadia (talk) 01:48, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

Ontario Line number

There's a note in the Toronto subway#Line specifications section, "Don't add line number", which seems odd given this article already notes that it's Line 3, and for years TTC and Metrolinx documents have referred to as Line 3, with their renderings use the purple in the signage. Is that note stale? Nfitz (talk) 22:08, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

Nope... there's been no official announcement of it being Line 3 or that the purple roundel with the 3 will actually be used. The plan is for it to be named Line 3, but as anyone who follows transit in Toronto knows, plans change. Sometimes quite dramatically. So until an official source comes out and starts calling it that and it is picked up by reputable 3rd-party sources, it is not Line 3. —Joeyconnick (talk) 05:57, 30 May 2026 (UTC)

I disagree. There's been many official announcements that it will be Line 3. The only question would be the colour of the roundel. The line name could easily change again before it opens. The line may never even open. Nfitz (talk) 22:34, 31 May 2026 (UTC)

I agree with Nfitz in this case as the numbering is official, but not the colour as the colour is tentative. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:08, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

It is pretty much set in stone at this point it will become Line 3. This official Metrolinx Regional transit diagram with 'in delivery' projects does mention the Ontario Line as Line 3 for example: [1] & [2]. The colour seems to be purple, but that could change. Still quite early on in construction though and there is no mention of Line 3 here: https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projects-and-programs/ontario-line. PascalHD (talk) 02:44, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

+1 to Joeyconnick. What do secondary sources call it as this time? The Ontario Line. We can wait. Turini2 (talk) 08:09, 1 June 2026 (UTC)